Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Troika
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Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Troika » 14 Dec 2015, 21:34

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
As stated in the topic. I saw some Marines use one just now to instantly slip up a number of xenos and murder them with no way for them to do anything about it. From an IC perspective this shouldn't really be possible since aliens have claws and would just hang onto the ground. From an OOC perspective it's BS for obvious reasons, especially given the ridiculous area of effect a cleaning grenade has.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Removes a stupid exploit.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
As stated above.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
Remove cleaner grenades. Alternately, make xenos not slip on cleaner-ized floors.

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Toroic
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Toroic » 14 Dec 2015, 21:35

I saw a marine start to use this tactic on the sulaco the other day, it was very effective at stalling a xeno push, and is a far more effective area denial tool than any of the standard grenades.
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Wickedtemp » 14 Dec 2015, 22:17

Wait, this is a thing? Well shit, cleaning grenades are SUPER damn easy to make! I can foresee this being abused.

Yeah. This needs to go.

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Toroic
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Toroic » 14 Dec 2015, 22:26

I'm just picturing a couple of these being lobbed into the dropship as the xenos land, essentially filling it with space lube while marines can murder at their leisure.
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by monkeysfist101 » 14 Dec 2015, 22:46

Why are there cleaning grenades in the first place? They're out of place in a setting that's supposed to look like a bomb went off.
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Troika » 14 Dec 2015, 23:00

Probably, like many other things, a leftover vestige from the tgstation code.

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WyattH
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by WyattH » 14 Dec 2015, 23:13

-1 no reason to change this

everyone is slipped by cleaning grenades anyway, there aren't many

cry harder with your salt in the salt thread

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Wickedtemp » 14 Dec 2015, 23:25

WyattH wrote:-1 no reason to change this

everyone is slipped by cleaning grenades anyway, there aren't many

cry harder with your salt in the salt thread
Do you have any idea how easy it is to make a cleaning grenade? A researcher can make like a dozen of them, easily.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Artyom » 14 Dec 2015, 23:52

WyattH wrote:-1 no reason to change this

everyone is slipped by cleaning grenades anyway, there aren't many

cry harder with your salt in the salt thread
Typical pro marine box minded cuck.
Get out of the thread if you aren't going to make reasonable posts.
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by monkeysfist101 » 15 Dec 2015, 00:02

WyattH wrote:-1 no reason to change this

everyone is slipped by cleaning grenades anyway, there aren't many

cry harder with your salt in the salt thread
I play almost exclusively marine and think the cleaning grenade is dumb.
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Toroic » 15 Dec 2015, 00:38

Honestly, compare how long and effective the stun is from the cleaning grenade (which I assume has a space lube component) with the queen's screech.

Then consider that marines can pump out lubenades pretty darn easily.

This is going to lead to some major salt once it catches on, and a whole lot of marine major victories. With the radius, even running away won't help slower castes.
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by WyattH » 15 Dec 2015, 00:54

I don't see the reason for the freak out in the thread, the cleaner grenades have always been like this. Find me a time when a researcher and marines use this to some consistent advantage somehow and I'll believe it's an issue.

Any chemnade is easy to make, and yet I don't see CMO or Researcher every round churning out grenades of any type, it's the rare researcher that does and even then is only able to make so many. My BEST round I had as a researcher ever I output 16 large chemnades. And frankly only about 4 of those were even used by the marines.

I play both xeno and marine, so it's funny that you choose to make this a marine/xeno player issue, when it's just a gameplay thing.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Wickedtemp » 15 Dec 2015, 01:36

You don't need technically even grenade casings for these. You just need a large beaker to pour all of the chemicals in and you can rush the Xeno's, slip all of them around you, let marines shoot them and then haul ass to grab another beaker. Any xeno that tries to move towards you would be slipped. At worst, you get pounced, but if the marines aren't complete idiots they'd kill the xeno before it can do any real damage.

Cleaner grenades are insanely easy to make and I wouldn't be surprised if someone throws in several cleaner nades into the dropship when the Xeno's board.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Aredal » 15 Dec 2015, 01:46

I was a carrier one round and marines were just throwing them from behind their barricade table shockgrille turtle coward shield when I was running around dancing infront of it and mocking them. Good that I ran away from it beucase I did not know that xenos can still be slipped in this code.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Toroic » 15 Dec 2015, 02:42

Wyatt, I think you underestimate how the metagame evolves.

When I started playing hivelord rarely built tunnels on the planet. Now they usually do, and the exits about half the time are places I've placed them.

Electic grills weren't as common then, either. In the 3 or so months I've played, I have never seen slip grenades before this week, now multiple players report seeing them.

What that tells me is the meta has shifted.
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Wickedtemp » 15 Dec 2015, 05:48

We weren't really having the hangar fortresses either. Or, if they were used, they weren't nearly as succesfull as they are now.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Daisuke08 » 15 Dec 2015, 12:01

This sounds more like a bug, I didn't think xenos could be slipped in general

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by apophis775 » 15 Dec 2015, 17:47

I've been trying to fix this, but NoSlip tag doesn't seem to work.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by monkeysfist101 » 15 Dec 2015, 19:14

How about just removing the cleaning grenades?
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by LordLoko » 15 Dec 2015, 19:29

Removing cleaning lube could work, I don't think it would kill the cide.
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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Wickedtemp » 19 Dec 2015, 23:34

WyattH wrote:I don't see the reason for the freak out in the thread, the cleaner grenades have always been like this. Find me a time when a researcher and marines use this to some consistent advantage somehow and I'll believe it's an issue.

Any chemnade is easy to make, and yet I don't see CMO or Researcher every round churning out grenades of any type, it's the rare researcher that does and even then is only able to make so many. My BEST round I had as a researcher ever I output 16 large chemnades. And frankly only about 4 of those were even used by the marines.

I play both xeno and marine, so it's funny that you choose to make this a marine/xeno player issue, when it's just a gameplay thing.
From what I'm hearing, this has been pretty damn consistent usage of cleaner grenades... So, yeah, they're gonna have to go. Xenos aren't slipped by banana peels or soap, there's no reason they'd slip on the foam either.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Jack McIntyre » 19 Dec 2015, 23:47

Just a heads up, if marines abuse cleaning grenades you will be either warned or banned due to using meta knowledge. I only say this because it seems that some people on the marine team want to abuse this knowledge. This is a bug that Apop has been trying to fix so if you abuse it, don't expect any sympathy as if you were abusing any other bug.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Inaf » 20 Dec 2015, 00:10

-1 to grenade removal
Both marines and aliens have dozens of little tricks, based on tg-station code. This tricks are immensively fun to use and discover. It is a pity just to remove it from code.
Yeah, I know, current cleaner grenades are too strong since they affect too large area. But instead of plain removing them out of there, we can limit their explosion radius to 2 (like what happened to incendiary grenades).
Do not ruin one of the sources of fun in CM and SS13 in general.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by apophis775 » 20 Dec 2015, 17:10

I guess we could remove the cleaning grenades, approved.

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Re: Xenos shouldn't be slipped up by cleaning grenades

Post by Surrealistik » 27 May 2016, 12:18

Cleaner nades are for cleaning up the aliens.
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