Help intent to put out fire?

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Habalabam
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Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Habalabam » 20 Aug 2017, 07:19

Has it been considered that you should be able to put out fire on somebody else if you use help intent? Especially if you are young runner. It seems that you don't have time to put yourself out before going crit. Especially annoying if you reach weeds and you manage to resist once, but the flames didn't go out the first time. You die in the middle of comrades (comradettes).

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Jackie Estegado » 20 Aug 2017, 07:20

Flamethrowers are weak enough as it is, they don't need to be nerfed.
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Habalabam » 20 Aug 2017, 14:54

I didn't think to spam click in the line of fire. Could be a time consuming action. But it is a bit silly to be able to do the complete rescue, heroically taking your comrade, breaking line-of-sight to the baddies, dragging away from the action, locating weeds..... only to not be in time because they are in crit and thus not able to drop and roll themselves.

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Bronimin » 20 Aug 2017, 15:38

Aliens are winning EVERY game within 30 minutes of deployment DESPITE this being when the aliens are supposedly their weakest. Are we talking about how 'silly' it is that xenos are so tanky?

No, marines need more nerfs.

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Humorcet » 20 Aug 2017, 18:21

That would make the flamethrower useless and xeno's weakness supposed to be fire. It's already easy to survive being lit on fire most of the time.

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by CrimsonAerospace » 20 Aug 2017, 19:07

Yeah, no...there was a time where Staff updated the Incinerator so that is was ACTUALLY a threat. Fired quickly, could go upwards of 10 tiles...Those were better times.
Now it's among one of the weakest weapons, again. Except this time, it can do damage IF you manage to hit anything with it.
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by NoahKirchner » 20 Aug 2017, 20:25

wait until suggestions are back up
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Crab_Spider » 20 Aug 2017, 21:40

CrimsonAerospace wrote:Yeah, no...there was a time where Staff updated the Incinerator so that is was ACTUALLY a threat. Fired quickly, could go upwards of 10 tiles...Those were better times.
Now it's among one of the weakest weapons, again. Except this time, it can do damage IF you manage to hit anything with it.
That's called a broken gun, and when you got hit with those flames, you were dead in mere seconds.
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by kooarbiter » 21 Aug 2017, 00:23

Crab_Spider wrote:That's called a broken gun, and when you got hit with those flames, you were dead in mere seconds.
Have you never seen a flamethrower?
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by CrimsonAerospace » 21 Aug 2017, 01:44

Crab_Spider wrote:That's called a broken gun, and when you got hit with those flames, you were dead in mere seconds.
An ACTUAL flamethrower is nothing compared to what the Incinerator is. The thing fucking spits napalm. This weapon use to actually be viable as a weapon, instead of a tool to clear weeds and bloke paths.
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Crab_Spider » 21 Aug 2017, 11:31

kooarbiter wrote:Have you never seen a flamethrower?
Yes. I'm talking about the pre-nerf flamethrower.
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by DoctorOctopus » 21 Aug 2017, 14:39

Fire is one of the main counters to crusher and if someone could just come over and spam click him to put him out it would be a huge nerf on the marines and make the already irrelevant flamethrower even more-so.

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Habalabam » 21 Aug 2017, 15:12

Yes, it should only be viable after everything else is in order. You must complete the rescue as before. Get to the downed sister and drag to safety. I think that is easily solved by making it a three second (?) duration action.

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Heckenshutze » 21 Aug 2017, 20:51

I'll support this if in exchange, we get the old un-nerfed flamethrower
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by CoreyTori » 21 Aug 2017, 23:00

Habalabam wrote:Yes, it should only be viable after everything else is in order. You must complete the rescue as before. Get to the downed sister and drag to safety. I think that is easily solved by making it a three second (?) duration action.
if you say marines need more nerfs your saying you should nerf them to the point that they have no gun...also thats stupid
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by xywenx00 » 22 Aug 2017, 00:24

I find the flamethrower to be one of the most usefull weapons right now. Also like the others said, it needs no nerf, that would make the game too easy for the aliens.
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Habalabam » 22 Aug 2017, 04:52

This is not about the current state of marine vs aliens. I assume the buff/nerf pendulum is going to keep swinging. However, this should be achieved by taking things that either does not make sense or where the resulting player behavior is undesirable.
The current state of nerf/buff has more to do with whether or not a xeno should be able to take two full sprays of assault rifle fire without being debilitated or made to crawl back to safety, than to profess that "two wrongs make a right".

One can always argue whether the timing is right, but that is a separate discussion for whether or not this suggestion has a place on the suggestion backlog.

Keep focus, please.

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Bronimin » 22 Aug 2017, 08:04

You seem to think that the small amount of fire on the xeno sprite is at all accurate of what getting blasted with a gout of napalm at point blank range is like. Instead, you should be looking at the human sprite when they are hit with napalm. Napalm is a sticky syrup that clings to surfaces and burns at 1000 degrees C.

Napalm also has oxidants are mixed in expressly to make it more difficult to extinguish by rolling around or having your buddy put a fire blanket on you. Patting is not effective.

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Casany » 22 Aug 2017, 08:45

The thing is, being blasted by fire or shot with an incen bullet almost never crits an alien unless they were already close to death or in crit beforehand. If an alien isn't smart enough to roll twice then why should you help it?
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by nerocavalier » 22 Aug 2017, 15:29

Casany wrote:If an alien isn't smart enough to roll twice then why should you help it?
Casany wrote:they were already close to death or in crit beforehand.
This.
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by CrimsonAerospace » 22 Aug 2017, 16:47

Heckenshutze wrote:I'll support this if in exchange, we get the old un-nerfed flamethrower
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Marcus Jackson » 23 Aug 2017, 02:01

It's already bad enough that Queen and Rav (The 2nd one I can understand but the Queen being fireproof? Really guys?) are completely immune to flames, what you are putting forward does not need to become a thing. I'm speaking as both an incinerator-main, and a xeno-main, that this would already make not only the flame thrower practically useless, it would make EVERY flame-based weapon useless if it can be patted 3 times and stopped completely.

Xenos already get an absurd 70-85% win rate (last I checked, could be even higher now) just from how the Marine nerfs are right now, I get what you are trying for, but constantly reminding people to "keep focus please" isn't going to hide a massive paradigm shift like the one that you are suggesting... hell I don't think this could even be counted as a nerf, because that implies there is at least SOME effectiveness left over, this is literally the equivalent of removing all the flame weaponry and ammo from the Marine arsenal, but just keeping them physically in the game for the devs to not have to actually put in work removing them.

However, if we were to get the old flamer back, and with some adjustments for both sides here and there, it could be considered a decent middle-ground for your idea.
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Habalabam » 23 Aug 2017, 11:13

I already adressed the part of balancing. In the current state of balance, the devs should be picking up to-do items that will benefit the marines before doing this.
When to do something is a different question than whether or not it belongs in the backlog at all, which is pretty much a question of wether or not it makes sense in and of itself and if the resulting player behavior is desirable. If you drop and roll to put out fire, you understand enough about fire to put somebody else out.

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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Marcus Jackson » 23 Aug 2017, 14:18

Habalabam wrote:I already adressed the part of balancing. In the current state of balance, the devs should be picking up to-do items that will benefit the marines before doing this.
When to do something is a different question than whether or not it belongs in the backlog at all, which is pretty much a question of weather or not it makes sense in and of itself and if the resulting player behavior is desirable. If you drop and roll to put out fire, you understand enough about fire to put somebody else out.
That is still not the main issue, these are military grade weapons, and the incinerator fires napalm, so if you REALLY want this then sure, 3 pats and the fire goes out... but the person doing it better lose a large chunk of health in exchange. Marines can only use extinguishers to effectively put fires out on others, this makes sense both in cannon and in game-play because napalm is fucking dangerous and hard to get rid of, but xenos should NOT have the ability to pat each-other out, because not only does it automatically unbalance everything despite your claims to the contrary, it also makes no sense that napalm can be put out by another (non Ravager) xeno just using it's hands to pat them down and not receive any sort of major damage.

The big problem is that Fehweh and Apop have huge boners for xenos, so any "to-do" updates for marines are going to not actually be all that useful, the most recent useful one we had was helmets being updated but in trade off they messed with almost all of the gun locker and your personal inventory slots so now even with macros it takes like 4 clicks just to fucking reload... marines get shit on, that's how it's been, that's how it's probably gonna stay, so unfortunately unless you are putting in the clause to bring back the original incinerator and give the incendiary rounds and bombs a huge boost, this is still at it's core a BALANCING issue.

And if we are not demanding the caveat of updating the flame-weapons then of course, they will accept this suggestion almost immediately because it benefits the "poor, weak, and downtrodden xeno players", and gives the shaft to marines, despite it making no real sense.
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Re: Help intent to put out fire?

Post by Heckenshutze » 23 Aug 2017, 14:33

Marcus Jackson wrote:That is still not the main issue, these are military grade weapons, and the incinerator fires napalm, so if you REALLY want this then sure, 3 pats and the fire goes out... but the person doing it better lose a large chunk of health in exchange. Marines can only use extinguishers to effectively put fires out on others, this makes sense both in cannon and in game-play because napalm is fucking dangerous and hard to get rid of, but xenos should NOT have the ability to pat each-other out, because not only does it automatically unbalance everything despite your claims to the contrary, it also makes no sense that napalm can be put out by another (non Ravager) xeno just using it's hands to pat them down and not receive any sort of major damage.

The big problem is that Fehweh and Apop have huge boners for xenos, so any "to-do" updates for marines are going to not actually be all that useful, the most recent useful one we had was helmets being updated but in trade off they messed with almost all of the gun locker and your personal inventory slots so now even with macros it takes like 4 clicks just to fucking reload... marines get shit on, that's how it's been, that's how it's probably gonna stay, so unfortunately unless you are putting in the clause to bring back the original incinerator and give the incendiary rounds and bombs a huge boost, this is still at it's core a BALANCING issue.

And if we are not demanding the caveat of updating the flame-weapons then of course, they will accept this suggestion almost immediately because it benefits the "poor, weak, and downtrodden xeno players", and gives the shaft to marines, despite it making no real sense.
I support you to a certain point.. the Feweh and Apop part was too much
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