Thoughts on Queen changes

Our lives for the Queen!
User avatar
Toroic
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1011
Joined: 25 Sep 2015, 04:05

Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Toroic » 08 Jan 2018, 14:13

I’d like to hear the thoughts from players regarding the queen changes. I like the changes for a number of reasons (lore friendly, queen has more commanding tools, global warding is tasty).

My theorycrafting is that hivelord will be more important for tunnels, true forward basing will probably become less important (because you’ll have to relocate the queen meaning 5 min of no evolution progress) and we might start to see queens not going up on the shuttle and just coordinating from the ground (tradeoff of combat queen vs maybe 20 min of evolution). We’ll probably want a drone or two dedicated to egg transporting to keep a steady supply flowing and the queen herself could easily be completely walled in, with the only way in and out via tunnel. No risk from escaped hosts, and in theory you could nest her in an unusual spot and thus marines won’t know where to really assault.
"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you..."

Xenos Vult

User avatar
HackedGlass
Registered user
Posts: 1
Joined: 08 Jan 2018, 14:02
Byond ID: Hackedglass

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by HackedGlass » 08 Jan 2018, 14:17

Being a round-start xeno the time we had that new update, I can say that I'll never be able to scrub that image from my eyes.

From a gameplay perspective however, I think it's a great change, it makes the Queen have a more direct control over her minions and enforces the Hive-mindedness more forcefully.
Image

Legodude9
Registered user
Posts: 1
Joined: 10 Dec 2017, 18:31
Byond ID: Legodude9

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Legodude9 » 08 Jan 2018, 14:21

i really Like the changes, makes the queen less Meta Scream front line, also means the queen isn't a weaker Praetorian.

User avatar
Dumblike
Registered user
Posts: 116
Joined: 06 Jan 2018, 21:29
Location: Sao Paulo
Byond ID: Dumblike

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Dumblike » 08 Jan 2018, 14:53

I really liked, though I almost never play queen

For me, it's like... spicing up battles.

Before the update, my vision about was like, queen goes in, screeches and captures one or two marines then retreat. Now it's cooler like, having the almost permanent pheromone, but relying on the other xenos, or, giving up evolving progress and massive buffs in order to have a powerful stun on the field.

RobBrown4PM
Registered user
Posts: 38
Joined: 16 May 2016, 11:22

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by RobBrown4PM » 08 Jan 2018, 15:46

Love the update. I think it adds a lot more to Xeno gameplay, and properly balances front line combat (no op screech). Support castes like carriers and hive lords are now extremely useful.
Mains: Roberto 'Taco' Moreno
Usual Jobs: SL/Spec/SG/Engie/XO

User avatar
Gnorse
Registered user
Posts: 141
Joined: 25 Dec 2016, 13:06
Location: Middle of bum-fuck nowhere, Africa.
Byond ID: Gnorse
Steam: Gnorse2

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Gnorse » 08 Jan 2018, 16:05

Don't play xeno, So I'll just talk from a marine perspective.
IMO, This is a fantastic change. The screech was a bit OP Especially since they changed it to where you couldn't move as a marine when the queen changed even if you weren't knocked down, essentially giving the xenos 2 hosts every screech. It's also great from a lore POV because combat queen really doesn't make sense
"I AM A GOD AND NO ONE CAN TELL ME OTHERWISE !" -LCPL 'DOA'
Oussama 'DOA' Neghiz : viewtopic.php?f=91&t=15550

Image

USCM : Proud Smartgunner/Specialist/SL/Standard. Executive Officer If I'm feeling spicy.
Xeno (Rarely) : Praetorian, Ravager, Crusher, Spitter
Charlie Squad best squad

User avatar
OTURNIP
Registered user
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Oct 2017, 11:43
Byond ID: OTURNIP

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by OTURNIP » 08 Jan 2018, 17:36

I like it. It makes drones and hivelords more valuable. Drones can take the eggs through tunnels and get them to the front lines at a very fast pace, allowing for more infections and carrier traps to be made.
A lot of times you'll have drones scrambling over each-other to get the eggs first, which is pretty funny.

User avatar
Jonesome
Registered user
Posts: 68
Joined: 09 Aug 2016, 03:22
Location: Denver, CO USA
Byond ID: Jonesome
Steam: Darth Dan

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Jonesome » 08 Jan 2018, 19:53

I really like the ovipositor pixel art, it's beautifully disgusting.
Image

Reuben Owen
Registered user
Posts: 147
Joined: 17 May 2015, 18:01

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Reuben Owen » 08 Jan 2018, 20:04

I like the change. However the evolution stopping when the Queen detaches kinda annoys me. Mostly because if the Queen wants to relocate, you have to delay the hive. And there is also pretty much no more evolution after she detaches herself and goes to LZ1 to call the shuttle. Meaning if you caught a bunch of Marines at Nexus alive, and infected them, they're only going to be Young T1s for the duration of the game. Just irks. Really if you send that shuttle for endgame you only get what you bring with you. Because Queen turning into the stationary form on the shuttle is a really, reaaaaally risky/bad idea imo. More smaller sized xeno groups flying to almayer will be boned. Still want to try out new Queen. Still like it a lot. Moving eggs around by drones is hella cool. They can make their own little 'mini hives' with actual eggs now. Adorable.




sidenote on the power of queen's phermones
earlier today there was a round where she reached *ancient* along with a prae and like 2-3 xenos and unleashed the cmgold account level recovery phermones and detached

after the marines retreat a bit (after she massacred them with a few screeches as they approached the hive) , she had up recovery and the prae had guard and she was almost invincible, chilling in 5 squares away from barricades (they were blocking the caves) resting and taking concentrated fire from 3-4 marines for around an hour and rarely only dropping below 50%
the marines were literally doing more damage to themselves then her w/ff, and she just would get up to screech every now and then
the round reset before she could finish, but I assume she would've won or at least scared them off planet

this explains the nerf today to her phermones, I don't know how bad it is now but she probably won't be able to do that anymore

The art of it made me want to click X, but it's growing on me. I like it more now. But I never thought I'd hear the words "ovipositor" during a game of cm.
I play Xeno 99% of the time. All castes.

User avatar
manezinho
Community Contributor
Community Contributor
Posts: 327
Joined: 02 Jul 2017, 15:52
Byond ID: manezinho

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by manezinho » 08 Jan 2018, 23:27

I wanted this forever. Now I'm happy. Simple as that.
I play both marine and xenomorph.

Marine Name: Andrew Bryson
Common Classes: Standard, Smartgunner
Common Castes: Sentinel, Drone (Almost never T3.)
Deaths: 9001

(PS: Deadchat is best chat.)

McRamon
Registered user
Posts: 70
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 17:28

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by McRamon » 09 Jan 2018, 00:09

I actually loved to play agressive and take part in fights as queen. It was very boring to sit in the hive. Well now i guess with hivemind camera system (havnt yet played the game after update) there will be something to do which is nice
You can find me on the battlefield by the name "Liam Compton"
Regular positions - SL, Smartgunner, Spec
Image

User avatar
Jeser
Registered user
Posts: 1042
Joined: 04 Mar 2015, 00:47
Location: Donetsk, Ukraine

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Jeser » 09 Jan 2018, 02:28

Queen update is gorgeous, though needs some tweaking. Healing while being on fire is retarded. Overwatch+Zoom is very powerful tool, that opens incredible tactical options and makes Queen finally aactually being able to know fight status.

On marine side, retarded screeching is almost gone, so fights now are more fair, which is yay.

To McRamon: I simply grew eggsack on DS and stayed there while my aliens wiped out ship and SD with ease.
Jeser "Fox" Aushwitz.

Jeser believes only in one thing - common sense.

Image
Image
Image

Apop's permission:
Click

User avatar
jalen earl
Registered user
Posts: 173
Joined: 03 May 2016, 19:27

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by jalen earl » 09 Jan 2018, 03:04

great update different playstyles ahoy..... the change to passive egg laying is great
Mainly play - SL , SG , SO

A half assed heroic that plagiarizes all his war speeches

x31stOverlord
Registered user
Posts: 26
Joined: 12 Nov 2017, 17:53
Location: UK
Byond ID: x31stOverlord

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by x31stOverlord » 09 Jan 2018, 03:55

I havent yet played the new queen which I hope to remedy when I get home later. However, from what I've seen and am about to speculate I have the following notes:

- More lore friendly representation of the hive structure. I.E queen being safe and secure in the hive whilst the other castes defend/see to the hives growth. +1
- Xenos currently have to rethink their tactics from wait for queen screech rush forward kill/capture a few muhreems then run back +1 Marine -1 Xeno
- Global pheromones on steroids (I believe have been nerfed slightly already) +1 Xenos
- New command features for queens in egg laying mode might be interesting as it takes a more SO style role. Neutral until I've played queen to give my take on it.
- Xeno growth linked to egglaying mode. Is another big change, punishing Queens who leave egg laying mode often as it hinders the hive overall and makes some interesting points for later rounds especially if they come to need to get aboard the Almayer. Of the rounds I've played since the update the Ayys havent gotten on the Almayer so I can't comment entirely on it. Remains neutral until I have more info.
- Overall queen strength. It wasn't often that you saw Ancient empress due to how combat orientated they were before the changes. Now with them being almost forced to remain in the hive for a large portion of a round I suspect ancient empress will be a common occurrence with almost zero sightings for the marines until she suddenly comes charging out of the flank and tearing the marines a new one. Again. Pure speculation at the moment but might require slight tweaking of numbers or changes of marine tactics.


Overall I like the direction of the update and look forward to testing the queen role and experiment with varying tactics as a Xeno as well as rethinking marine tactics in future.

Good work devs!
Wolfgang Schneider - CL, Rsr, SO, XO Roscoe Barrett - SL, Spec, Engie, SG Ancient Empress, Ancient Runner (69)

User avatar
Dumblike
Registered user
Posts: 116
Joined: 06 Jan 2018, 21:29
Location: Sao Paulo
Byond ID: Dumblike

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Dumblike » 09 Jan 2018, 04:03

Jeser wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 02:28
On marine side, retarded screeching is almost gone, so fights now are more fair, which is yay.
and that makes fights cooler for xenos too, not simple screech and rekt :D

User avatar
Jeser
Registered user
Posts: 1042
Joined: 04 Mar 2015, 00:47
Location: Donetsk, Ukraine

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Jeser » 09 Jan 2018, 04:09

From the that round when i was Queen, I noticed aliens suddenly switching on long-forgotten team-play skills. Also, none of my crushers were killed during planet fight despite we hadn't got boiler for a long time and without my screeches. Which is a good sign.
Jeser "Fox" Aushwitz.

Jeser believes only in one thing - common sense.

Image
Image
Image

Apop's permission:
Click

User avatar
jalen earl
Registered user
Posts: 173
Joined: 03 May 2016, 19:27

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by jalen earl » 09 Jan 2018, 05:30

Also noticed now xenos focus on keeping supply lines to the hive solid and there is plenty of tunnels for use too.
Mainly play - SL , SG , SO

A half assed heroic that plagiarizes all his war speeches

User avatar
Dumblike
Registered user
Posts: 116
Joined: 06 Jan 2018, 21:29
Location: Sao Paulo
Byond ID: Dumblike

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Dumblike » 09 Jan 2018, 07:30

yeah, hivelords actually take tunnels more seriously.

and I think it is really cool, making fights more consistent/longer.

misto
Registered user
Posts: 446
Joined: 28 May 2017, 05:53
Byond ID: Megamisto

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by misto » 09 Jan 2018, 13:01

it seems good change. maybe evo could be cut to half rate instead of full stop if queen needs to walk(a queen who walks for too long risks harming the hive badly as it stands), and some fine tuning of the strengths of the global pheros but its already grown into a breddy good system

User avatar
Gnorse
Registered user
Posts: 141
Joined: 25 Dec 2016, 13:06
Location: Middle of bum-fuck nowhere, Africa.
Byond ID: Gnorse
Steam: Gnorse2

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Gnorse » 09 Jan 2018, 14:20

Now that I've played a bit, I Seriously agree with the whole "Nerfing Global Phero" deal. Global warding/recovery from an ancient empress is insane.
"I AM A GOD AND NO ONE CAN TELL ME OTHERWISE !" -LCPL 'DOA'
Oussama 'DOA' Neghiz : viewtopic.php?f=91&t=15550

Image

USCM : Proud Smartgunner/Specialist/SL/Standard. Executive Officer If I'm feeling spicy.
Xeno (Rarely) : Praetorian, Ravager, Crusher, Spitter
Charlie Squad best squad

User avatar
Marine Tickler
Registered user
Posts: 8
Joined: 02 Jan 2018, 15:31
Byond ID: Marine Tickler

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Marine Tickler » 09 Jan 2018, 14:37

I feel like having the hive rely on a nested queen for evolution points is unfair to both the queen and the hive. Given the need for evolution an unnested queen during the early to mid game is basically griefing (outside of emergencies). Basically if the queen isn't nested enough to provide near mature for Tier 3 by the time the battle is raging aliens are in deep shit. Not having access to eggs is bad, but the work around is to play conservatively and just not die. not having access to global pheremones is bad, but there are prae and drones to pickup the slack. Not having strategic control is bad, but honestly a lot of the queens ive had are too dumb to use strategy anyway.

BUT NO EVOLUTON?!?! There's no work around - every second the queen is walking and dumb is one second closer to alien defeat (in the early and mid games). It's literally zero sum outside of emergency defense of nest. every player is penalized, and unlike marines who can form into independent squads with their own initiave aliens are entirely at the mercy of baldy queens. walking = griefing

Alternatives to Relying on Nesting Queen for Evolution Points:

1. evolution continues at half pace while queen walking (stops while she's dead)

2. evolution rate continues based on the ratio of drones and hivelords to the rest of the hive while queen is walking. 20 aliens, 4 drones (4) 1 hivelord (2) means evolution continues at 6/20 = 30% pace while queen is walking

3. living hosts can be implanted with pheremone sacks that turns them into evolution points producers until they die.

4. dead (or living) hosts can be shredded into a pheremone slurry that allows evolution to continue.

FUCK I AM SO SALTY ABOUT UNNESTED QUEENS WHY DEVS WHY

User avatar
Gnorse
Registered user
Posts: 141
Joined: 25 Dec 2016, 13:06
Location: Middle of bum-fuck nowhere, Africa.
Byond ID: Gnorse
Steam: Gnorse2

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Gnorse » 09 Jan 2018, 14:55

I Dunno. I Guess you can make evolution continue at a rate of about 30% if the queen is on the move.
You could also change it so that the queen has a 'Come to me' order of sorts, and any xenomorph that isn't near the queen after a certain delay starts losing health.
"I AM A GOD AND NO ONE CAN TELL ME OTHERWISE !" -LCPL 'DOA'
Oussama 'DOA' Neghiz : viewtopic.php?f=91&t=15550

Image

USCM : Proud Smartgunner/Specialist/SL/Standard. Executive Officer If I'm feeling spicy.
Xeno (Rarely) : Praetorian, Ravager, Crusher, Spitter
Charlie Squad best squad

User avatar
Jeser
Registered user
Posts: 1042
Joined: 04 Mar 2015, 00:47
Location: Donetsk, Ukraine

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Jeser » 09 Jan 2018, 15:28

Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 14:37
I feel like having the hive rely on a nested queen for evolution points is unfair to both the queen and the hive.
Yeah, while marines have to rely on 3-10 people for adequate game.
Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 14:37
Given the need for evolution an unnested queen during the early to mid game is basically griefing (outside of emergencies). Basically if the queen isn't nested enough to provide near mature for Tier 3 by the time the battle is raging aliens are in deep shit. Not having access to eggs is bad, but the work around is to play conservatively and just not die. not having access to global pheremones is bad, but there are prae and drones to pickup the slack. Not having strategic control is bad, but honestly a lot of the queens ive had are too dumb to use strategy anyway.
Let me explain for you, if you don't know. Aliens have cool ability to ahelp and replace bad Queens. Use it if you think that Queen is doing something bad.
Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 14:37
BUT NO EVOLUTON?!?! There's no work around - every second the queen is walking and dumb is one second closer to alien defeat (in the early and mid games). It's literally zero sum outside of emergency defense of nest. every player is penalized, and unlike marines who can form into independent squads with their own initiave aliens are entirely at the mercy of baldy queens. walking = griefing
So, new update demands from alien smarter play. Wow. How cruel.

Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 14:37
Alternatives to Relying on Nesting Queen for Evolution Points:

1. evolution continues at half pace while queen walking (stops while she's dead)

2. evolution rate continues based on the ratio of drones and hivelords to the rest of the hive while queen is walking. 20 aliens, 4 drones (4) 1 hivelord (2) means evolution continues at 6/20 = 30% pace while queen is walking

3. living hosts can be implanted with pheremone sacks that turns them into evolution points producers until they die.

4. dead (or living) hosts can be shredded into a pheremone slurry that allows evolution to continue.
No. Queen = Hive. If aliens need to change Hive other than going to Almayer - they fucked up and should be punished for that.
Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 14:37
FUCK I AM SO SALTY ABOUT UNNESTED QUEENS WHY DEVS WHY
Ahelp if Queen behaves like an idiot. Not only marines should suffer from idiots in Command/Req/Engineering/Medbay/Brig.
Jeser "Fox" Aushwitz.

Jeser believes only in one thing - common sense.

Image
Image
Image

Apop's permission:
Click

User avatar
Challenger
Registered user
Posts: 371
Joined: 05 May 2017, 19:31
Byond ID: digitalis

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Challenger » 09 Jan 2018, 20:12

"The xeno hud now shows: upgrade level, leadership token, whether the queen is currently watching you."

I wonder if xenos would be more obedient to their queen if the xeno HUD didn't tell them whether they were being supervised or not, a la the panopticon.
Ilan & Ellen Rahal | Judea Bynes | Henry Arago | Ellis Model | Neina Smith | Emile Cadiz | Priya Jatin
Guides to: squaddie | medic loadouts | FOB design | macros.

User avatar
Renomaki
Registered user
Posts: 1408
Joined: 22 Jul 2016, 18:26

Re: Thoughts on Queen changes

Post by Renomaki » 09 Jan 2018, 21:58

I haven't got a chance to play queen yet, but if I ever do, I feel this change would suit me very well.

Being able to focus PURELY on leadership instead of having to multitask giving orders, laying eggs, building shit and FIGHTING all at the same time is a blessing if you ask me. Plus, now that you have the ability to PUNISH xenos, they'll be more willing to listen to you!

I also like that you can form "warbands" now, assigning a xeno as a leader to lead the pack while you focus on managing your abilities and provide tactical feedback. The queen has become a Super Staff Officer, and from what little I know about it, it sounds pretty dandy.
Sometimes, bravery comes from the most unlikely sources.

An inspirational song for when ye be feeling blue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5_zvuPw8xU

Post Reply