Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

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Marine Tickler
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Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by Marine Tickler » 09 Jan 2018, 08:19

Thank you devs for the great update. As a Xeno player, I have noticed a few issues that have arisen with the new queen dynamics. I have never actually played as queen so if I'm wrong about stuff bear with me, but this is what I've noticed.

1. Evolution is now tied to strategic (stationary) mode of queen.

This places a lot of the hive's fate in whether or not the queen feels like being stationary. Not every queen wants to be an egg factory for most of the game

solution: Make a new global pheromone - evolution - that queen secretes while stationary. This causes normal evolution. If no evolution pheremone, half rate evolution. If queen is dead, no evolution.

2. Queen can only produce eggs while rooted.

If it's just the queen left, she's kind of screwed. Also, sometimes there's a demand for just a few eggs.

Solution: queen can produce a few eggs occasionally while tactical (walking). Maybe like one a minute.

3. Strategic global pheromones are very powerful.

While I don't think they're NECESSARILY OP, the queen's strategic form is OP relative to its tactical form now.

Solution: when walking, tactical, the queen can produce only one battlefield wide pheremone, Combat Pheremone. This pheremone has no effect on its own, but boosts the effects of any other pheremones that a xeno is under (from like drones or praes).

Final question: should the queen be whitelisted now? her new role is very important, even moreso than before EDIT - especially given the strategic oversight ability of a queen. not every queen understands this role and it's kind of esoteric

Just my thoughts, thanks for your work devs
Last edited by Marine Tickler on 09 Jan 2018, 08:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by Bronimin » 09 Jan 2018, 08:23

I disagree that any of these are a problem.

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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by Dumblike » 09 Jan 2018, 08:53

Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 08:19

Final question: should the queen be whitelisted now? her new role is very important, even moreso than before EDIT - especially given the strategic oversight ability of a queen. not every queen understands this role and it's kind of esoteric
I agree that playing as the Queen requires things that didn't before, but at the same time, if you don't want/really need to assist, you don't need to literally engage in combats. But, making the role whitelisted would mean that, 2/3 rounds would probably be without Queens' for a good time, isn't it?

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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by HKO2006 » 09 Jan 2018, 08:59

Should the queen be whitelisted now? No, I believe, what needed to be done is to promote the queen to 1. ask in LOOC 2. F1 ask mentors 3. Ahelp if they can't really handle it. 4. Edit the wiki so it is more useful for new Queens. That's to make it more friendly to new Queen players.
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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by x31stOverlord » 09 Jan 2018, 09:19

Some of the points here are good but the thought might be too rooted in the established 'meta' of Xenos.

1: I do agree with the concern of evolution in the hive if the queen is not in her egg laying mode, for example, when the Xenos need to board the Almayer the whole hive will cease to grow. This may incencitise aliens to sit around after pushing the marines off planet and wait for long periods of time to evolve all castes. So perhaps growth is accelerated when queen is in laying mode and hindered but not stopped when she is not.

2: I do not agree with this point, the update has provided a unique and lore friendly queen in lieu of the ability to run around shitting out eggs. And arguably if the queen is the last Xeno alive she has lost regardless of egg laying abilities. The egg spawning speed I've observed is acceptable enough that the queen could set up for a few eggs whilst marines searched for her if necessary with enough time to plant them and make nests. Just some adaptation to the new system is required I think.

3: The global pheromones are quite strong perhaps overly so at the moment but I am sure the devs are monitoring the new change closely and in my opinion the global pheromones are set to compensate for the queens now back line support and command role rather than screech machine to allow Xenos strength without relying on her screech. The numbers on the pheromones are likely to be tweaked a few times this week as it is a new and widely different mechanic to what we had before and again will take time to balance correctly and get used to on both sides.

4: As for the question of whitelisting, I am on a definite "no" the position is critical for Xenos and a round cannot play without a queen, think of how many rounds you have without a marine CO. Now imagine trying to find enough people whitelisted to continuously play queen. It'd be diabolical. A few of us were discussing possibly timegating the role but we're told this would be extremely hard to code in with how the xeno roles are selected. So at the moment there is no good fix to "bald" queens. But on the other side, now with this update you won't be seeing the "not it" syndrome as often in drones as most of the time the queen will last an entire round as they will be in the nest and protected.

All in all, it is still a new update and we should perhaps see about adjusting our mindset to the game rather than blame the devs for altering things that are for the best. In a week or two check back and write your thoughts on the system again after altering playstyle. If people still have complaints or concerns then maybe something does need to change. Until then stay positive and open minded!
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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by Rataca100 » 09 Jan 2018, 09:34

Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 08:19

Final question: should the queen be whitelisted now? her new role is very important, even moreso than before EDIT - especially given the strategic oversight ability of a queen. not every queen understands this role and it's kind of esoteric

Just my thoughts, thanks for your work devs
No, it would mean Xenos loose after the first queen dies the reason it wasnt whitelisted to begin with.


Also, think of this as as a Xeno balance rather than a update per say, the queen is meant to be vulnerable if they are last alive and not having the queen do pheromones means you actually need the castes that can do it.
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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by Lukey111 » 09 Jan 2018, 09:39

I agree with the Queen whitelist because the fate of the round is based off the Commander, which is whitelisted, and the Queen, which is not. So, if one person who is not specifacally good at queen never produces eggs at roundstart, or through the round, the game pretty much ends, while the xenos can't reproduce, and get picked off one by one.
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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by NethIafins » 09 Jan 2018, 09:41

The queen update is just first iteration of this kind of overhaul

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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by Rataca100 » 09 Jan 2018, 09:46

NethIafins wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 09:41
The queen update is just first iteration of this kind of overhaul

Buckle up
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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by BladeBr » 09 Jan 2018, 09:49

No to any of this. Queen stationary mode is a mode you are supposed to remain stationary.

The buffs she have for stationary mode is to compensate the lack of screech.

If we added some of those bonus to walking mode...what was the point of stationary?
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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by Jeser » 09 Jan 2018, 10:07

Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 08:19
1. Evolution is now tied to strategic (stationary) mode of queen.

This places a lot of the hive's fate in whether or not the queen feels like being stationary. Not every queen wants to be an egg factory for most of the game

2. Queen can only produce eggs while rooted.

If it's just the queen left, she's kind of screwed. Also, sometimes there's a demand for just a few eggs.
^ to these 2: It is exactly the point that Queen is encouraged to follow lore and stay at one place - hive, where she belongs. If person doesn't want to be in eggsack form most of round - gtfo of Queen role and go any other alien.
Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 08:19
3. Strategic global pheromones are very powerful.
Those were nerfed today it and aliens seems not to regen while being on fire anymore. So it's fixed now.
Marine Tickler wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 08:19
Final question: should the queen be whitelisted now? her new role is very important, even moreso than before EDIT - especially given the strategic oversight ability of a queen. not every queen understands this role and it's kind of esoteric
Queen can be easily replaced by any ghost/alien, just ahelp if Queen is harming hive.
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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by Dumblike » 09 Jan 2018, 11:05

BladeBr wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 09:49
If we added some of those bonus to walking mode...what was the point of stationary?
allowing the hive to keep evolving?

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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by BladeBr » 09 Jan 2018, 11:08

Dumblike wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 11:05
allowing the hive to keep evolving?
Exactly. If walking mode can keep xenos evolving the same as stationary, theres no point for it existing.
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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by misto » 09 Jan 2018, 13:08

u shoulda posted this in viewtopic.php?f=133&t=15984 instead of making a new thread and splitting up discussion.

1. fuck evo pheromones. theyll cry forever if you turn on any other phero because they all wanna be leet ancient hunters
2. if its just the queen left she basically deserves to be screwed, the hive has collapsed and the fight is as good as over
3. strategic form is supposed to be the more useful form, walking form is for emergencies and transport

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Re: Issues with New Queen Dynamics and Some Possible Solutions

Post by jalen earl » 09 Jan 2018, 15:04

Eh i see what you are saying but at the same time i like that the queen and whole hive gameplay has changed now.

It actually forces more teamwork between xenos ive noticed as they cant rely on meme screeching to advance lines, drones are being more drone like as well focusing more on egg supply running.

The differentiation between nested queen and combat makes sense with lore and i reckon blurring that line by allowing crossover abilities will damage the new gameplay dynamic.

And the idea of the queen being defenseless if last left should be real. If the queen has done a good job she should be ancient empress by the time the marines penetrate the hive meaning some kind of heavy last stand scenario of blood and death. rather than a chicken delaylien which in most instances just drags a round out for way too long
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