Praetorian Balance Discussion

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saronsen
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by saronsen » 07 Sep 2016, 15:10

Have the Praetorian and the Queen buff each other for being on the same screen. Queen gets a bit more plasma regeneration and a tiny bit of constant health regen, Praetorian gets a reduced version of Frenzy and Guard. Plus whatever other changes the big slow boat might need.

Seems okay, right?
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Reuben Owen » 07 Sep 2016, 19:13

Nah I got a better idea


Make it so Praes recovery full plasma even when not at full health

Usually they die because they run outta plasma and cant do anything back even tho they're at 90% health and they use their plasma up really quick
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saronsen
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by saronsen » 09 Sep 2016, 12:01

That is.. actually an extremely simple solution to at least see if that's all the Praetorian needs. A start, if it were
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ParadoxalObserver
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by ParadoxalObserver » 09 Sep 2016, 15:58

If Prae /really/ needs a buff I'd say just give it a slight buff to speed (so it's as quick as the Queen) and its armor. That way, along with its neurotoxin it'd even be viable to beat marines in melee. Which, I feel, is kind of the point of the Praetorian, being the Queen's guard it should have a mix of both range and melee. With its heavily limited (but highly damaging) acid, it's strong at range but needs to get in fairly close. And with a buff to speed and armor, it could use neurotoxin when going into melee and punishing marines that got too close.

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Solacian72
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Solacian72 » 16 Sep 2016, 19:16

Just adding, I just learned today the Prae's spit range is really short, apparently only 4-5 blocks.

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Eenkogneeto
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Eenkogneeto » 16 Sep 2016, 20:38

I play spitter caste almost exclusively, While I consider myself a boiler main I play a lot of prae too. I don't think prae needs any combat buffs, infact I hesitate to suggest any buffs at all. If you think they are too weak the #1 priority to making them more viable would be to increase their speed, as a t3 spitter caste they are SLOW, without frenzy you are at high risk of being killed by any single marine who spots you when your plasma runs out, which it will since your armor is shit.
The other good solution to buffing prae I heard was to let them regen plasma while injured, Which would remove the need for any other buffs because they wouldn't be in so much danger when they get hit.
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MrJJJ
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by MrJJJ » 17 Sep 2016, 00:30

I do feel like prae does need a buff, for a "royal guard" they are unnaturaly weak, compared to a spitter, who can actually dodge enemy shots/SADAR's, gunfire, sentries, etc and evolves to Elite/Ancient much more fast, and can actually escape

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Eenkogneeto
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Eenkogneeto » 17 Sep 2016, 00:33

MrJJJ wrote:I do feel like prae does need a buff, for a "royal guard" they are unnaturaly weak, compared to a spitter, who can actually dodge enemy shots/SADAR's, gunfire, sentries, etc and evolves to Elite/Ancient much more fast, and can actually escape
Yeah, As I said the movement is the one primary thing they need more of, so you dont have to frenzy just to try and not die.
Its worth noting that mature+ prae acid splashes paincrit in one hit, so its a lot better than people think.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Toroic » 17 Sep 2016, 11:31

Suroruro wrote:I play spitter caste almost exclusively, While I consider myself a boiler main I play a lot of prae too. I don't think prae needs any combat buffs, infact I hesitate to suggest any buffs at all. If you think they are too weak the #1 priority to making them more viable would be to increase their speed, as a t3 spitter caste they are SLOW, without frenzy you are at high risk of being killed by any single marine who spots you when your plasma runs out, which it will since your armor is shit.
The other good solution to buffing prae I heard was to let them regen plasma while injured, Which would remove the need for any other buffs because they wouldn't be in so much danger when they get hit.
The biggest issue I have with prae is that they aren't really competitive for a t3 slot. Would you rather have a prae or another boiler/crusher?

For me that question is 100% rather have a boiler or a crusher.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by TeknoKot » 17 Sep 2016, 17:44

Praetorian's need to be given half the strenght of Queen/Ravager, probably albeit more health than Crusher and a good speed too.
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darklizard45
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by darklizard45 » 18 Sep 2016, 19:39

What if we give the Praetorian the ability to plant pheromone nodes?
They have an area effect of the choosed pheromone
Greenish node: Recovery
Bluish node: Guarding
Reddish node: Frenzy

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Eenkogneeto
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Eenkogneeto » 21 Sep 2016, 06:42

darklizard45 wrote:What if we give the Praetorian the ability to plant pheromone nodes?
They have an area effect of the choosed pheromone
Greenish node: Recovery
Bluish node: Guarding
Reddish node: Frenzy
Unless and even if it costs all 750 plasma, This is effectively saying 'What if aliens always had all 3 pheromones always'
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Jroinc1 » 21 Sep 2016, 09:00

darklizard45 wrote:What if we give the Praetorian the ability to plant pheromone nodes?
They have an area effect of the choosed pheromone
Greenish node: Recovery
Bluish node: Guarding
Reddish node: Frenzy
Make it cost a few hundred plasma, and only affect a single tile. Good for defensive positions or recovery spots, and can be spammed with time to cover an area/make a "fast path" for frenzy, but they aren't cheap.
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Eenkogneeto
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Eenkogneeto » 21 Sep 2016, 13:11

Renomaki wrote:-snip-
Being a xeno isn't always fun you know, and in order to be a good xeno, you have to accept that you are not going to have a job fun.. But just like being in the marines, you gotta be a team player if you wanna survive.
Prae is slower than the queen, its neurotoxin range is quite low, it has low tackle rate compared to say, a hunter and it dies to AT rockets in one go. All you give the queen is pheromones she can give herself, And Plasma, which admittedly is something prae can do (Almost) as well as a boiler at times.
In lore? Its a royal guard
In game? Its more like a bigger spitter with pheromones thats easily countered by tramadol before elite.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Nick123q23 » 11 Oct 2016, 17:58

I think praetorians should have more health, armor, and a speed boost so they're a little faster than the queen. They should be the generalist of the T3s, ravagers are fast attacks, crushers are slow and tanky, while boilers are biological artillery. A praetorian would be a mix of all three with it's spit, speed and armor, though it wouldn't specialize like the other T3s.
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Liran343
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Liran343 » 21 Oct 2016, 17:30

I don't know... a prae is like a mobile supporting turret... providing pheromones to nearby xenos while shooting any marines that get in her vision range (you don't.. can't go godzilla with her). But I do argue that she needs a slight damage increase to her acid spit the more mature she gets or more plasma regen.

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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Eenkogneeto » 21 Oct 2016, 20:35

After playing a LOT more prae than i had at previous points in this thread, I oncemore am of the opinion that the only thing I think can be touched on prae without making it insanely OP, is its movement speed. Make it as fast as the queen and it'll already be a huge buff.
One hit paincrit
Three hits hardcrit
5-6 hits husks
At elite it can spit as fast as a spitter, at ancient it has zero cooldown.
Prae really doesn't need too many changes to make it an unstoppable murder machine, its already pretty fuckin crazy if you dont have good medics or the prae hits your medics.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by kroack » 21 Oct 2016, 20:40

I too have been playing a lot of prae, it's basically like the xeno machine gun equivalent. You crit a lot more marines than a boiler will typically, if you play it smart and don't get yourself into situations where you'll be run down like a dog.

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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Crab_Spider » 14 Feb 2017, 13:24

Bump.
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Toroic
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Toroic » 14 Feb 2017, 13:27

I still haven't been impressed by prae performance. There seems to be one every game and it sucks up a slot with poor return.
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Crab_Spider
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Crab_Spider » 14 Feb 2017, 13:35

Toroic wrote:I still haven't been impressed by prae performance. There seems to be one every game and it sucks up a slot with poor return.
"Too slow, got to go."
In a game where speed matters, the slower you are the higher the chances an ERP ban will be issued.
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Reuben Owen » 14 Feb 2017, 14:31

Toroic wrote:I still haven't been impressed by prae performance. There seems to be one every game and it sucks up a slot with poor return.
so what would you suggest to make them less succ
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Swagile » 14 Feb 2017, 14:49

Every time ive had a prae on the xeno team as a Queen, they have always died first or just sat beside me doing nothing when a crusher could do the same yet still charge out once in a while to provide a AOE stomp / guard weaker castes.

I have yet to see a good prae player and anytime anyone goes prae even after I tell them not to go prae I order them to charge into the tallhosts and suicide simply because they are wasting slots that could be given to someone who could actually do something.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Crab_Spider » 14 Feb 2017, 15:02

Swagile wrote:Every time ive had a prae on the xeno team as a Queen, they have always died first or just sat beside me doing nothing when a crusher could do the same yet still charge out once in a while to provide a AOE stomp / guard weaker castes.

I have yet to see a good prae player and anytime anyone goes prae even after I tell them not to go prae I order them to charge into the tallhosts and suicide simply because they are wasting slots that could be given to someone who could actually do something.
Maybe they die first because you order them to their deaths? They're powerful if used correctly, you just don't know what youre looking for (like the pheromones or powerful corrosive globs that'd be apparent if you were hit with one. Or the lack of a cooldown for spitting at Ancient?)
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Post by Swagile » 14 Feb 2017, 15:15

Crab_Spider wrote:Maybe they die first because you order them to their deaths? They're powerful if used correctly, you just don't know what youre looking for (like the pheromones or powerful corrosive globs that'd be apparent if you were hit with one. Or the lack of a cooldown for spitting at Ancient?)
Why would I let a T3 sit near me till it gets to Ancient when its finally useful when every other caste can do so much more at Mature, and their Ancient equivalents make them gods in a similar manner?

Ravs at Ancient? Pff, just shoot yourself as a marine, you'd be doing yourself a favor.

Crusher at Ancient? Better hope you have a SADAR and your still planetside because if not there is no way to kill a Ancient Crusher.

Boiler at Ancient? Better hope its a 1 v 1 and your at CQC range for even a SLIGHT CHANCE to win.

Crushers even at Mature have a AOE stomp, a charge, and can deflect most normal bullets and AP if anyone is emitting Guarding pheremone.

Ravs can delimb pretty easily at Mature and if you have frenzy pheremones going they are really good.

Boilers at mature can crit in direct hits (last I checked at least) and do a decent amount of damage outside of a direct hit.

Prae only brings to the table pheremones (drones / carrier can do this already), acid spit (ancient spitter can do almost just as good but is even better in movement + vent crawl)... and thats it, basically.

As one player put it perfectly, Prae feels like a template for all T3's; its a combination of all the shitty (and some good) aspects of all of the T3's combined. Pheremones from Carrier, minor armor from Crusher, minor melee of a Rav, minor acid from a Boiler.
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