Praetorian Balance Discussion

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Eenkogneeto
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Eenkogneeto » 15 Feb 2017, 00:58

Still a prae main, Still think its fine balance wise, Beyond potentially increasing its speed a little.
Every acid splash from a prae is paincrit, Their acid is 2 to 3 times stronger than a spitters and at elite they both have the same speed.
Prae gets a revolver to the spitters pistol, Pheromones, Tankiness and boiler tier regen on their plasma. Its incredibly underrated, The issue/reason why is most people who play prae are bad. Sucks to say it but honestly get gud and prae will carry the game. I average 20-30 kills a round as a prae. Praes are a nightmare to fight on offense or defense without a damn good medic keeping the painkillers flowing to keep you all on your feet, And he'll rapidly drain your medics supplies if the engagement lasts a while. Not to mention the sheer ability to kill anyone who gets stunned by a queen screech regardless of distance (Meaning they dont have the threat of being sadar'd like a rav/etc do when following up)
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Swagile » 15 Feb 2017, 01:02

Ive seen too many bad prae's to recommend it as a "good" caste.

Ill try it out for a few rounds though and see if I can do anything decent with it.

Though a speed buff would defo be nice, being slower than the queen is still a dumb concept.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby TheMusician321 » 15 Feb 2017, 02:56

speed buff def. needed
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Toroic » 15 Feb 2017, 04:27

Eenkogneeto wrote:Still a prae main, Still think its fine balance wise, Beyond potentially increasing its speed a little.
Every acid splash from a prae is paincrit, Their acid is 2 to 3 times stronger than a spitters and at elite they both have the same speed.
Prae gets a revolver to the spitters pistol, Pheromones, Tankiness and boiler tier regen on their plasma. Its incredibly underrated, The issue/reason why is most people who play prae are bad. Sucks to say it but honestly get gud and prae will carry the game. I average 20-30 kills a round as a prae. Praes are a nightmare to fight on offense or defense without a damn good medic keeping the painkillers flowing to keep you all on your feet, And he'll rapidly drain your medics supplies if the engagement lasts a while. Not to mention the sheer ability to kill anyone who gets stunned by a queen screech regardless of distance (Meaning they dont have the threat of being sadar'd like a rav/etc do when following up)


Prae at elite isn't relevant, because most games are lost before then. As a crusher I rarely hit elite, and if I do it's on the sulaco and xenos are taking a victory lap.

Even if those numbers are true, I really struggle to say that boiler played equally competently doesn't enable kills of more marines and contribute more though it's massive support kit.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Swagile » 15 Feb 2017, 12:46

Yeah thats my only problem with the argument that a Prae is good at Elite +.

If your getting Elite T3 and your not on Sulaco, your doing something wrong as a hive.

Every T3 caste is good at Elite; heck, the same can be said about almost every other Caste, it just takes a long time for T3 to even get that far, and every other T3 caste has more functionality than a Prae at Young and Mature.

Ill try to play Prae, but it just feels like a waste of a T3 slot compared to every other T3 that can do so much more.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Casany » 15 Feb 2017, 19:19

Toroic wrote:Prae at elite isn't relevant, because most games are lost before then. As a crusher I rarely hit elite, and if I do it's on the sulaco and xenos are taking a victory lap.

Even if those numbers are true, I really struggle to say that boiler played equally competently doesn't enable kills of more marines and contribute more though it's massive support kit.


If I may here, I don't think all of this was about an elite prea. The first lines he says are "every acid splash is a paincrit" and he's most likely correct. A single prea during a defense can fend off the marine force as long as a drone is able to supply a steady rate of plasma. I mean, one hit paincrit is a BIG deal at young, because nothing else has that strong of an ability. I was once four hit husked by a mature prea, so I really doubt that they are that bad. Maybe a slight armor or speed buff might do them good, though.

Boilers are countered by snipers. If you have one good sniper spec boilers become more of an annoyance and not a threat. Hell, a single marine with a marksman rifle can scare one away. With prea though they don't emit light and therefore can't really be countered unless they are Zerg rushed. The usual boiler is good at keeping the marines on the defensive, a good prea can force an entire marine force to retreat
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Clarkeh » 16 Feb 2017, 01:28

All the prae needs is a decent speed buff and not major overhaul. It's stupid its slower then the Queen that's for sure.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Reuben Owen » 16 Feb 2017, 11:11

what would a speed buff do exactly for a prae? its not supposed to be alone offweeds like a hunting caste
and even if it got a speed buff I don't think it would be fast enough to outspeed a marine even on weeds and you'd still get shot to pieces chased down like a delicious giant roast turkey, doesn't help you look like a queen as a target
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Crab_Spider » 16 Feb 2017, 11:25

Reuben Owen wrote:what would a speed buff do exactly for a prae? its not supposed to be alone offweeds like a hunting caste
and even if it got a speed buff I don't think it would be fast enough to outspeed a marine even on weeds and you'd still get shot to pieces chased down like a delicious giant roast turkey, doesn't help you look like a queen as a target


A boost in speed would at the least allow it to stand a chance against the Marines if the xenos are losing or be more viable as Queen's Guard or Brood Protector.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Reuben Owen » 16 Feb 2017, 12:11

Crab_Spider wrote:A boost in speed would at the least allow it to stand a chance against the Marines if the xenos are losing or be more viable as Queen's Guard or Brood Protector.

speed wouldn't help it if the xenos are losing, its not going to be able to outrun marines when escaping with a speed boost even on weeds, do you expect it to be equal in speed to a spitter? they cant even outrun a marine they rely on stunspit to get away

and as for protecting the hive it has its spit which can catch infected and if they escape the nesting area thats bad hive/nest design not a fault of the prae's
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Casgair » 16 Feb 2017, 14:02

Speed would go a bit in allowing praes to move forward with the Queen / rest of the pack, as stated. T3 sentinels were never really designed to be used in a vacuum, they've always been meant to be part of a team (boiler arguably more so). Arguing for or against a rework/tweaking should keep that in mind.

Personally as the Prae's main utility is midrange combat, a slight increase of speed to allow it to reach the action at least as fast as the queen does makes sense.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Halinder » 16 Feb 2017, 14:41

Praes are essentially superspitters with pheromones that got fat. They're pretty fuckin' powerful (at mature status a single corrosive spit will melt faces, whereas ancient spitters require 4-5 spits to do the same) and their lack of speed is one of the only things holding them back. Making them move at the speed of the Queen would be a welcome change but anything more and you risk making them a bit too good.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Toroic » 16 Feb 2017, 16:16

Halinder wrote:Praes are essentially superspitters with pheromones that got fat. They're pretty fuckin' powerful (at mature status a single corrosive spit will melt faces, whereas ancient spitters require 4-5 spits to do the same) and their lack of speed is one of the only things holding them back. Making them move at the speed of the Queen would be a welcome change but anything more and you risk making them a bit too good.


Except the acid globs are slow moving, prae armor is pretty bad, and they aren't boilers, ravagers, crushers, or carriers.

Carriers have even more deadly projectiles, can spread pheromones, move faster, and place weeds as well. They also evolve from the significantly more useful drones.

The issue with prae is they have no unique utility and that makes them worst in slot. Mostly boilers contribute far more to xeno victories with their long range (aka safe) bombards that block marine vison.

Speed would make them less bad, but still not give them a reason to be used over another t3.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Boltersam » 16 Feb 2017, 18:15

What about a stronger acid spit that covers the ground in acid in a 3x3 radius? Slower firing, of course.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Reuben Owen » 16 Feb 2017, 19:33

the main problem with prae is that you spend so much time waiting to heal is just so you can spit 1 time so you can get hit by 1 bullet and then wait another minute to shoot once before taking damage spitters have this problem too but its exacerbated on praes because they're slower and huge making them easy targets, they spend more time just waiting on weeds to heal up than any other caste

also worth mentioning they get less plasma then boilers, idk why since they use so much compared to them but w/e
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby kroack » 21 Feb 2017, 15:39

I've been playing some prae recently, when queens allow it.

Played smart, with an understanding that you are basically the xeno equivalent of a static machine gun nest, you can pain crit dozens of marines at once, but then again so can the boiler and without placing itself in as much danger.

I think boiler and prae speeds should be reversed, personally. And maybe some fourth kind of spit for prae, maybe a healing spit or something that causes random syndromes in marines. Some other kind of ace up their sleeve to make them useful as support.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby TheMusician321 » 21 Feb 2017, 20:17

Played against a decent prae a while ago and holy shit, so much burn damage, our medic had to resupply 3 times solely for kelotane pills.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Crab_Spider » 21 Feb 2017, 23:18

TheMusician321 wrote:Played against a decent prae a while ago and holy shit, so much burn damage, our medic had to resupply 3 times solely for kelotane pills.


One time when a Praetorian was the last xeno alive, he got 2 spots in me, and I was at red, luckily my buddy Sam Greene and Barry OConnor managed to fend it off, but back to the main point, I was so fucked up from those spits, I was almost in PAIN CRIT (10 seconds away). The fact you don't see them on the front lines is a miracle, but the fact they're so slow is... it's something that compensates for that power although that means they'll catch more lead than a boiler, which needs to have its speed swapped with the praetorian.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Toroic » 22 Feb 2017, 07:24

I don't know where you guys think boiler speed is significantly faster. Prae and boilers are both slow.

Also, the fact that a medic resupplied 3 times is a testament to how unimpressive the prae is, because they weren't just killing you.

Well placed boiler bombards just murder.
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Crab_Spider » 22 Feb 2017, 10:36

Toroic wrote:I don't know where you guys think boiler speed is significantly faster. Prae and boilers are both slow.

Also, the fact that a medic resupplied 3 times is a testament to how unimpressive the prae is, because they weren't just killing you.

Well placed boiler bombards just murder.


Trust me the boiler outraces the praetorian with and without frenzy active. Boilers don't get much use anywhere else other than a frontline assault, they HAVE to wait a half a minute to reload a bombard, and whether it makes it to the clicked destination or not is based on a dice roll.
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Swagile » 22 Feb 2017, 10:36

yeah we had 2 mature boilers early round and were camping engineering in ice colony

just those 2 mature boilers was enough to push back two entire squads of marines

ive yet to see prae's pull that off with their minimalist abilities
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Crab_Spider » 22 Feb 2017, 12:36

Swagile wrote:yeah we had 2 mature boilers early round and were camping engineering in ice colony

just those 2 mature boilers was enough to push back two entire squads of marines

ive yet to see prae's pull that off with their minimalist abilities


Oh yes. That's something any xeno can do, it's not like AoE abilities are rare and the marines were reduced to the narrow path that leads to Engineering. I don't see why no other xenomorph can pull that shit o-- oh wait!
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Swagile » 22 Feb 2017, 13:06

Crab_Spider wrote:Oh yes. That's something any xeno can do, it's not like AoE abilities are rare and the marines were reduced to the narrow path that leads to Engineering. I don't see why no other xenomorph can pull that shit o-- oh wait!


this happened on LZ2 offence as well and thats an open area; the only reason we pulled back is because of turrets killing off our ravs who were charging in with no plan whatsoever

prae's can barely pull that off from what ive seen
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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby Crab_Spider » 22 Feb 2017, 13:22

Swagile wrote:this happened on LZ2 offence as well and thats an open area; the only reason we pulled back is because of turrets killing off our ravs who were charging in with no plan whatsoever

prae's can barely pull that off from what ive seen


Jokes are supposed to be funny.
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: Praetorian Balance Discussion

Postby kroack » 22 Feb 2017, 13:49

Boils are much faster than Praes

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