Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

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Whistle
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Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Whistle » 05 Aug 2016, 19:36

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Xeno heal from plasma stores, not weeds.
No change to regen rate, no change for needing weeds when in crit.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Less weed camping, more freedom of movement for xeno, as lets face it healing off weeds is a bit strange, especially considering as the queen heals using this method, let me tell you, yes, you run out fast if you're hurt.
Less ability use when xeno are injured, spit stomp, charge, leap, which is more logical from an animal, wouldn't be as able to murder the shit out of you as good while injured.
As certain xeno scale up they gain bigger stores of plasma, which they just cannot go through, this removes this redundancy while also bringing regen in line with what they should be, not some magical weeds but the creatures ever increasing and innate ability to heal.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): More aliens not forced to remain on weeds all day everyday, meaning more effective scouting/skirmishing, less constant "MORE WEEDS PLEASE!" all the time.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): Queen code to regen health from plasma stores instead of weeds.
Tweaking may be needed for balance, but should be in line with current regen times.
The overall heal time of xeno should not be increased, the over all plasma regen should not be affected, the amount of plasma drain required should not rob the xeno of their stores should they be standing on weeds at the time of healing.


I don't see this as much of a buff, the more xeno fighting off weeds the better for all engagements, you get one crit in the open, they're out.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby DMAN » 05 Aug 2016, 19:41

*For the Queen only that sounds swell or the hiver lorder, but recovery pheromones exist for this. It doesn't debilitate those who are getting healed from it, but eh. This would really screw over recovery pheromones, but maybe recovery pheromones can be tweaked to prevent this and heal the users without such debuffs, which would make recovery pheromones even better imho. Seems like a good idea if recovery pheromones are changed with this. +1

Clarification: Having this effect all xenos would be nice if pheromones were altered with it, but if pheromones are untouched have it be a penalty on the Queen and Hivelord since they have the most plasma storage. Having this effect all xenos would be better, but recovery pheromones need tweaked so they wouldn't become useless. (Already almost typing more than I initially did. :^) Damned effect/affect.)
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Boltersam » 05 Aug 2016, 19:50

This...Is actually quite appropriate, I mean, what kind've scout or small infiltrating force is completely reliant on certain locations to heal themselves, they're supposed to be fully autonomous. However, just as a question, could a critted xeno theoretically heal themselves out of it? Brings a new meaning to the double-tap if so.

The only issue I see with this is plasma reliant castes exposed to combat will have much limited effectiveness, because one bullet alone causes considerable damage, and the plasma will be consumed too quickly to use their abilities at the same amount as they can now.

+1, but some changes would need to be made for the plasma castes like spitters being made almost useless in combat if they are fired at.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Whistle » 05 Aug 2016, 19:55

Boltersam wrote:This...Is actually quite appropriate, I mean, what kind've scout or small infiltrating force is completely reliant on certain locations to heal themselves, they're supposed to be fully autonomous. However, just as a question, could a critted xeno theoretically heal themselves out of it? Brings a new meaning to the double-tap if so.


As stated in the second line, negative, crit critters require weeds.

Regarding reduced spitter spit, they just have to duck and weave like the rest of the castes now, which I feel is more than fair than getting into a shootout.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby SecretStamos (Joshuu) » 05 Aug 2016, 22:39

Big +1 from me. I always disliked weed regen because it makes aliens afraid to attack, and marines afraid to attack. It's a deterrence.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Fritigern » 06 Aug 2016, 01:33

+1 This is a change that helps aliens and marines alike. Aliens can be a little more self reliant, but at the same time being injured punishes their capabilities in some kind of meaningful way during a straight up fight.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Toroic » 06 Aug 2016, 01:38

Fritigern wrote:+1 This is a change that helps aliens and marines alike. Aliens can be a little more self reliant, but at the same time being injured punishes their capabilities in some kind of meaningful way during a straight up fight.


If you played xeno, you'd already know that plasma regen is halted while injured, whether on weeds or not.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Fritigern » 06 Aug 2016, 01:42

Toroic wrote:
Fritigern wrote:+1 This is a change that helps aliens and marines alike. Aliens can be a little more self reliant, but at the same time being injured punishes their capabilities in some kind of meaningful way during a straight up fight.


If you played xeno, you'd already know that plasma regen is halted while injured, whether on weeds or not.


I've played my fair share of Xeno. Stopping plasma regen isn't much of a punishment for recklessly charging in to rip a guys leg off and getting away barely above critical just to do it again. Losing plasma to heal that damage back takes something away at the very least.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby KingKire » 28 Dec 2016, 11:29

+1 I really like this change.

It does have a few problems and interesting design choices that come with it though. Since plasma is now the "secondary" life bar for xenos, they need to really watch their use when they go attacking. A runner would have to balance on if he wants to pounce on more marines, or if he should go back to heal up. This also slightly skews the long term survival of certain xeno castes, with the crusher having a really small plasma pool ( and by extension, a really small secondary healing bar), but really high armor, while the drone carries a massive amount of extra "life" it can give to xenos, but at the cost of making sure it balances its building needs.

my thoughts on what would happen is that xenos would be less reliant on weeds directly to survive, and more reliant on large plasma storage castes to help "heal" and "resupply" them through a fight. To me that sounds like better gameplay and promotes more teamwork from aliens. I am behind this almost fully.

tldr, its a nerf overall to xenos as they now need to rely on other plasma castes to fight as long as they did before, but at the plus of giving the lesser castes more active roles in the game and maybe allowing for xenos to be buffed elsewhere.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Heckenshutze » 28 Dec 2016, 13:28

I would like to test this, yes +1
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby apophis775 » 28 Dec 2016, 13:51

This could be possible, stickied.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby dylanstrategie » 28 Dec 2016, 14:38

That's obviously a balance suggestion if I've seen any

I wouldn't be opposed to it, it would certainly make Xenos less ridiculously frail outside of weeded areas. The issue is balancing this properly so that Xenomorphs don't become too much harder to take down (every Xeno with a bit of sense will only leave the Hive for a skirmish with full Plasma), without making healing even more painful than it is now (you're going to be sitting out of combat for a while if you take a solid hit)

There might also be a balance issue for off-weed plasma regen and castes with very low regen and reserve like Runners, but I'm sure we can iron that out
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby SUPERMAN112 » 02 Jan 2017, 01:16

Neutral, this would somewhat encourage less cooperation, xenos being able to win currently involves different castes working together to get weeds up for making advancements, and lore wise healing on the weeds isn't too far fetched, but that's a lengthy and irrelevant topic. But I do get what you're saying, I would just want to see how it affects rounds, and whether or not it further encourages runner kamikazes
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Nubs » 04 Jan 2017, 10:08

I think this idea would improve the 'flow' of the game for both xenos and marines.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Butterrobber202 » 04 Jan 2017, 15:18

Yeah

It's a good idea, because if you get hit a few times as a Prae, after spitting acid and stuff at the silly little hosts, you have to wait for your health to refill before you can reload your shots
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Lucius Jones » 05 Jan 2017, 06:57

+1 I like it, though I might suggest runners plasma region being tweaked. It literally regenerates at the same amount as evolve points. If you loose all your plasma, 100 plasma for a young runner, it takes 100 ticks. half of their evolve time to make a hunter to regenerate plasma. Half of their life sticking and healing.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Shathir » 05 Jan 2017, 16:48

Really like this idea. Just like the Marines, once a Xeno is out of plasma, he would have to medivac. This would promote more coordinated strikes and less "ramboing".
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Lucius Jones wrote:+1 I like it, though I might suggest runners plasma region being tweaked. It literally regenerates at the same amount as evolve points. If you loose all your plasma, 100 plasma for a young runner, it takes 100 ticks. half of their evolve time to make a hunter to regenerate plasma. Half of their life sticking and healing.


Maybe make it cost less plasma to regen over a certain HP threshold, so if the Ayy is only slightly injured it doesn't take much plasma to fix, but once he is badly injured he has to go back and rest.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby adamkad2 » 05 Jan 2017, 19:20

This would be really grand. But what about regen pheromones? change it so it keeps its plasma regen bonus and also increases plasma to health conversion speed/amount sounds good. Anyway +1
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Dravis » 13 Jan 2017, 05:50

healing from plasma...that could be good so when away from hive or the way got blocked an injured xeno might need this plasma healing
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Liran343 » 16 Jan 2017, 13:05

Here is why it's a bad idea:
1) On weeds xenos will need regen plasma even if they are injured due to the fact that if a xeno runs out of plasma while still missing health, it will just be useless.
2) Xenos will not regen from weeds but from their plasma stores. (making the defensive caste more difficult to play)
3) Will force the xenos (offensive caste especially) to play more defensively and be less reckless. (nerfs the ability of the offensive caste to hard engage due to the fact that they take a lot of damage which leads to a heavier drain on the already meager reserves, and that means no more pouncing for you mister hunter).

That is just from the top of my head...

P.S. It also severely limits the xenos from using tail slash because the heavy plasma drain it has when active.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Butterrobber202 » 20 Feb 2017, 15:19

dylanstrategie wrote:That's obviously a balance suggestion if I've seen any

I wouldn't be opposed to it, it would certainly make Xenos less ridiculously frail outside of weeded areas. The issue is balancing this properly so that Xenomorphs don't become too much harder to take down (every Xeno with a bit of sense will only leave the Hive for a skirmish with full Plasma), without making healing even more painful than it is now (you're going to be sitting out of combat for a while if you take a solid hit)

There might also be a balance issue for off-weed plasma regen and castes with very low regen and reserve like Runners, but I'm sure we can iron that out


This got me thinking, what if the smaller castes healed faster? Or it took them less plasma to heal all together.

Just a thought
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby ParadoxalObserver » 21 Feb 2017, 01:39

Liran343 wrote:Here is why it's a bad idea:
1) On weeds xenos will need regen plasma even if they are injured due to the fact that if a xeno runs out of plasma while still missing health, it will just be useless.
2) Xenos will not regen from weeds but from their plasma stores. (making the defensive caste more difficult to play)
3) Will force the xenos (offensive caste especially) to play more defensively and be less reckless. (nerfs the ability of the offensive caste to hard engage due to the fact that they take a lot of damage which leads to a heavier drain on the already meager reserves, and that means no more pouncing for you mister hunter).

That is just from the top of my head...

P.S. It also severely limits the xenos from using tail slash because the heavy plasma drain it has when active.


'1) So... xenos won't be able to just rely on the fact that they have an easy way to regain health to recklessly jump into combat, flee, and recover health and will instead have to play more carefully? Oh no!

'2) How will defensive castes be more difficult to play? Defensive castes have the highest plasma stores so they'll be able to heal and still retain plasma. It'll just mean spitters can't endlessly spam spit without risking being in a situation where they won't be able to heal while hunters and runners (offensive castes with low plasma) can't just spam their hops to get in, attack, and then hop away if they take damage - meaning they'll have to be more careful - instead of again relying on how easily xenos can recover.

'3) The issue with this is...? This honestly seemed more like a positive than a negative. Oh no, hunters and runners can no longer play recklessly! The horrors! They'll no longer be able to get into large scale engagements without T3s without planning and having an array of T3s to support their efforts! Nor will runners be able to just jump in, drop huggers, and run off without far larger risk! And hunters, poor guys. They'll no longer be able to run in, tail slash a limb in hopes of doing difficult to repair damage and then running off to abuse the easy recovery of the xenos.

+1 to this idea. Right now xenos recover way too easily.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Liran343 » 21 Feb 2017, 07:51

ParadoxalObserver wrote:'1) So... xenos won't be able to just rely on the fact that they have an easy way to regain health to recklessly jump into combat, flee, and recover health and will instead have to play more carefully? Oh no!

'2) How will defensive castes be more difficult to play? Defensive castes have the highest plasma stores so they'll be able to heal and still retain plasma. It'll just mean spitters can't endlessly spam spit without risking being in a situation where they won't be able to heal while hunters and runners (offensive castes with low plasma) can't just spam their hops to get in, attack, and then hop away if they take damage - meaning they'll have to be more careful - instead of again relying on how easily xenos can recover.

'3) The issue with this is...? This honestly seemed more like a positive than a negative. Oh no, hunters and runners can no longer play recklessly! The horrors! They'll no longer be able to get into large scale engagements without T3s without planning and having an array of T3s to support their efforts! Nor will runners be able to just jump in, drop huggers, and run off without far larger risk! And hunters, poor guys. They'll no longer be able to run in, tail slash a limb in hopes of doing difficult to repair damage and then running off to abuse the easy recovery of the xenos.

+1 to this idea. Right now xenos recover way too easily.


So you do realize that no one will play offensive anymore because this suggestion completely destroys their purpose in game (which is to charge in head on to deal damage). It neuters runners from engaging because they are afraid/too concern about their plasma reserves depleting in 2 shots. So you'll see like 5-12 runners waiting to evolve or upgrade to elite to even be relevant. Hunters as well, become useless for the same reason that they'll need to worry about their plasma reserves too much and won't go solo hunting the back lines (which is the hunters trademark tactics), so they'll be more centralized which defeats their purpose.
Ravager is out of the question. Yes you deal tons of damage but if you even think about going hunting in a pack you'll need to be at least mature (prime target for SADAR and in general).
What I'm trying to say is that this change will drastically increase the skill level required from players in order to play xenos properly. (really bad)

Oh and it will also mean a shift in the meta that will make most players go sentinel. Picking marines from a distance is WAY more safer than worrying about getting shot.
Additionally, this kind of meta shift will promote xenos (as you mention) playing on the defensive (always) which will drag the rounds even more and make xenos not fun to play (IMO).

And don't even start "well so maybe if the xenos have a crusher they won't suk and go more on offensive".... No... if we get to a point where a hive needs a particular kind of xeno in order to even the chance of winning, we are in a bad spot.
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby Joe4444 » 21 Feb 2017, 08:27

Liran343 wrote:So you do realize that no one will play offensive anymore because this suggestion completely destroys their purpose in game (which is to charge in head on to deal damage). It neuters runners from engaging because they are afraid/too concern about their plasma reserves depleting in 2 shots. So you'll see like 5-12 runners waiting to evolve or upgrade to elite to even be relevant. Hunters as well, become useless for the same reason that they'll need to worry about their plasma reserves too much and won't go solo hunting the back lines (which is the hunters trademark tactics), so they'll be more centralized which defeats their purpose.
Ravager is out of the question. Yes you deal tons of damage but if you even think about going hunting in a pack you'll need to be at least mature (prime target for SADAR and in general).
What I'm trying to say is that this change will drastically increase the skill level required from players in order to play xenos properly. (really bad)


I think you forget the entire point of runners and hunters is to charge at the enemy until eventually they get them...
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Re: Xeno heal from plasma, not weeds.

Postby completelynewguy » 21 Feb 2017, 08:40

+1, appears sound. Maybe this will be implemented in a test in the future.

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