Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion) (Poll Added)

Generic, on-topic discussion about Colonial Marines.

What is your opinion on BREACHES (only) caused by the shuttle crash?

Poll ended at 16 Jan 2017, 16:30

Good as it is.
15
22%
Mostly good, add more spacesuits and pressure suits
41
60%
Needs to be totally reworked
6
9%
Needs to be totally removed
6
9%
 
Total votes: 68
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Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion) (Poll Added)

Postby apophis775 » 11 Jan 2017, 18:33

So, I'm looking for some feedback, but before you extra salty pretzels start commenting, please read the WHOLE POST.

Currently, the system is designed to "breach" the sulaco to vent the compartment and area the shuttle crashes into.

Dev have been discussing adjusting it to not breach or vent, but we are stuck almost 50/50, so we are looking for some input while we do more data collection on how it affects round.


Specifically, do you think there SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be breaching to space from the shuttle impact, WHY, and if you had the choice to do almost anything (barring, removing the shuttle crash mechanic), how would YOU alter the situation.

I'm not looking for anything BEYOND THAT for now, so please minimize flaming/arguing/saltwars (If i see stuff getting too salty or off-topic I'll delete them). I want to keep this as related to THIS SPECIFIC situation as possible.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Karmac » 11 Jan 2017, 18:36

Well once marines figure out there are space suits in EVA and gas masks + oxygen tanks littered around the entire station I doubt anyone will care much. As it is I don't think I've seen any salt in d-chat about it besides people complaining about gibbing/lack of warning, which as you've stated is intentional.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Steven Sneider » 11 Jan 2017, 18:39

Make EVA suits spread in different parts of the ship and dealing with atmos wont be that much of salt for me at least.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Edgelord » 11 Jan 2017, 18:42

I can't speak from a balance perspective as much but I love breaches. Simply because it really reminds you that you're fighting inside a spaceship, it's jarring and creates the air of "OH SHIT!". That being said marines need to have ways to operate once air starts venting. The best way to do this would be to add combat hardsuits.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Casany » 11 Jan 2017, 19:00

Well, you gotta remember there are two decks, and the top one has 4 sections of blast doors to stop breaches in sections. I think it shouldn't change
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby wastedfate » 11 Jan 2017, 19:16

I'm all for it breaching, however I see one major issue as far as atmos goes. And that's airflow. If atmos is set up, the un-breached sections will stay pressurized, which means anytime someone opens a door into that area, WOOOSH, everyone goes flying inside, smacking into walls, objects, aliens, piles of eggs. We'd need some kind of way of preventing the marines and perhaps the aliens from being thrown around constantly, such as maybe making changes to how magboots work.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Jroinc1 » 11 Jan 2017, 19:25

I'm all for breaching.
Reminds you that you aren't just on a box in "space", you're on a ship.

Additionally, no matter how bad the crash is, it only breaches one deck. The entire other deck shouldn't have atmos issues.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Feweh » 11 Jan 2017, 19:48

Issue with breaching from my observation right now is that its pretty much game over instantly.

Its too difficult for marines to battle atmos and aliens. Xenos will eventually spread the atmos and acid everything ruining any marine defenses.

It completely destroys and ruins the end game of the sulaco siege. Xenos already have a huge bonus of crushing marines with rasputin and bypassing all defenses. Its even toughe when they land and breach the entire area killing even more marines.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby NoahKirchner » 11 Jan 2017, 20:36

B-b-but the CE will now be able to like FIX BREACHES. So excited to be able to do that.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby InterroLouis » 11 Jan 2017, 20:47

NoahKirchner wrote:B-b-but the CE will now be able to like DIE TO ALIENS WHILE TRYING TO FIX BREACHES. So excited to be able to do that.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby nerocavalier » 11 Jan 2017, 21:03

I'm fine with the breaches since I don't expect the Sulaco to have ways of fixing breaches on its own.

However, it'll be less harsh on marines if space suits were scattered about the station more along with mag boots. This way, they can actually fight against xenos instead of worrying about dying from the lack of pressure or being thrown down and slaughtered due to air being sucked out by the breaches.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Snypehunter007 » 11 Jan 2017, 21:04

NoahKirchner wrote:B-b-but the CE will now be able to like FIX BREACHES. So excited to be able to do that.


If they can dodge the xenos that is.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby NoahKirchner » 11 Jan 2017, 21:07

Snypehunter007 wrote:If they can dodge the xenos that is.

I've fixed massive atmos fuck ups and engine problems with xenos clawing at my door, I got it fam.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby TopHatPenguin » 11 Jan 2017, 21:12

My only problem is with breaches that are unfair to one side, for example the fact that marines are going to die to pressure before the aliens get to them or they'll die as soon as the aliens melt into their defensive line.

If everyone had access to a spacesuit, or hardsuit imo it would be fine.

Also I would imagine that the Colonial Marines wouldn't just deploy into space with a set of Space suits for all personnel in case of a breach or a set just for the marines in case they need to salvage a ship in space which they can't use their "Hook and tunnel" thing on like in Aliens to rescue Ripley.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Tristan63 » 11 Jan 2017, 21:28

apophis775 wrote:So, I'm looking for some feedback, but before you extra salty pretzels start commenting, please read the WHOLE POST.

Currently, the system is designed to "breach" the sulaco to vent the compartment and area the shuttle crashes into.

Dev have been discussing adjusting it to not breach or vent, but we are stuck almost 50/50, so we are looking for some input while we do more data collection on how it affects round.


Specifically, do you think there SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be breaching to space from the shuttle impact, WHY, and if you had the choice to do almost anything (barring, removing the shuttle crash mechanic), how would YOU alter the situation.

I'm not looking for anything BEYOND THAT for now, so please minimize flaming/arguing/saltwars (If i see stuff getting too salty or off-topic I'll delete them). I want to keep this as related to THIS SPECIFIC situation as possible.


You should instead of breaching add smoke and fire that occurs when it breaches, and if any marines are nearby they get knocked down and stunned longer than xenos arriving.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Snypehunter007 » 11 Jan 2017, 21:36

TopHatPenguin wrote:My only problem is with breaches that are unfair to one side, for example the fact that marines are going to die to pressure before the aliens get to them or they'll die as soon as the aliens melt into their defensive line.

If everyone had access to a spacesuit, or hardsuit imo it would be fine.

Also I would imagine that the Colonial Marines wouldn't just deploy into space with a set of Space suits for all personnel in case of a breach or a set just for the marines in case they need to salvage a ship in space which they can't use their "Hook and tunnel" thing on like in Aliens to rescue Ripley.


Wouldn't the marines still all get knocked over by the pressure loss?
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby TopHatPenguin » 11 Jan 2017, 21:50

Snypehunter007 wrote:Wouldn't the marines still all get knocked over by the pressure loss?

Not always but it can/could happen, which means you could also add in mag boots if need be.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby RobBrown4PM » 11 Jan 2017, 22:04

I'm all for keeping breaches, it adds another needed dynamic to the game. If anything add in more hardsuits for the Marines. The point is for the Marines to be working together as a cohesive unit. Forcing them to work with what they have has always been apart of the dynamic of forcing them to work together, so please do not remove the breaches.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Renomaki » 11 Jan 2017, 22:17

Honestly, if marines fail to hold the planet, they deserve every bit of suffering they get.

Let them suffer, it is their own fault for making a crappy FoB and giving up the planet to the aliens.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Jroinc1 » 11 Jan 2017, 22:52

Upon carefully watching a crash into the left side of briefing with a breach, it took 2 full minutes from when the doors to caf melted for the caf pressure to drop to 85KPA, which is still breathable.

Also, no rapid air surges will happen unless you wait too long, or open a door immediately next to the crash site. Not enough pressure differential.

This appears to be more of a long-term "The ship is growing uninhabitable" problem than an instadrain. Just go to the unbreached deck.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby shotgunbill » 11 Jan 2017, 23:25

Let's see:

Pros:

- “New” (see: revived) gameplay dynamic
- Forces the use of hardsuits on the USS Sulaco (which usually never, ever get used)
- More incentive to actually fight on off-site locations
- EVA room finally has a purpose (CE and MTs gaining access to the crash site to repair damage if near/adjacent to the hull)
- Realism!

Cons:

- Revives old problems intrinsic to old Sulaco/the Nostromo/Prison
- More marines might die from depressurization than from aliens
- Hardsuit hoarding mentality
- Lag?

Before any decision is made, we should all wait a bit longer to see how the community feels about these new circumstances (or if the marines can adapt).
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Sneakyr » 11 Jan 2017, 23:51

Personally, I'd get nightmares from old Nos atmos.
In seriousness: If what Jroinc1 has seen is representative of how it'll work in practice, I'd be more than fine with seeing breaches. However, I do want to know this: What do they add?
Will it really make a difference to marines holding the planet? The usual reasons for retreats are that the marines are getting dunked on and the aliens have pushed into the FOB or something else bad has happened. I rarely see retreats for other reasons (though I imagine they do happen).
In addition, I can't see MTs being able to repair them 90% of the time because this'll be an end-round event, and I can only see them harming marines and making boardings sort of one-sided.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby DerpinMcDerpDerp » 12 Jan 2017, 10:37

shotgunbill wrote:Let's see:

Pros:

- “New” (see: revived) gameplay dynamic
- Forces the use of hardsuits on the USS Sulaco (which usually never, ever get used)
- More incentive to actually fight on off-site locations
- EVA room finally has a purpose (CE and MTs gaining access to the crash site to repair damage if near/adjacent to the hull)
- Realism!

Cons:

- Revives old problems intrinsic to old Sulaco/the Nostromo/Prison
- More marines might die from depressurization than from aliens
- Hardsuit hoarding mentality
- Lag?

Before any decision is made, we should all wait a bit longer to see how the community feels about these new circumstances (or if the marines can adapt).

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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Surrealistik » 12 Jan 2017, 12:38

Because Feweh strongly implied I should post here:

Surrealistik wrote:Beyond the previously mentioned completely unfun nonsense of being instagibbed at randumb without any real warning when the Rasputin crashes, a clearly unintended consequence of this change is that LZ1 is now all or nothing; if the Xenus manage to get on the Rasputin while the majority of marines are planetside, it's basically game over; just wait until the Queens start figuring this out. Soon, there will be no viable FOB except for LZ1 to stop this terminal event from happening.
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Re: Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion)

Postby Xenosandbox » 12 Jan 2017, 13:03

Just put a space suit in every oxygen locker so if they get looted it's the Marines own fault they die to Atmos instead of an unfun mechanic, also I suggest a rule that the queen must be on the rasp and ride it to the ship instead of putting all her children on sending them up and trying to regrow the hive Planetside and wait for the Marines IF they live to bring the pod down or if Marines are dumb they will leave the OD on the planet.
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