I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Generic, on-topic discussion about Colonial Marines.
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mizolo
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I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by mizolo » 11 Sep 2017, 14:08

Ok, so I noticed there are TWO main reasons for FF:

one is not paying attention to firing lines (happens occasionally, and can be learned relatively easily)

but the main one i'm going to focus on ... is POUNCING ...


Now you have just about 2-3 options when you do this:

fire
don't fire
wait until they get up and move out of the way, THEN fire (this almost never happens as the alien just uses the marine for cover while they slash)


OK, so don't fire is pretty obvious, don't fire, BUT firing has a risk, DUH ... FF

Here is a suggestion ... SORT OF, i'll talk about what to do if this isn't considered by staff

implement a game mechanic (that can be toggled) on whether or NOT to try to get up after a pounce, or try to get up after a set ammount of time that you can set, like 5 seconds, or even 10, or just turn it off and try to get up immediately.
personally i think this would help against FF MASSIVELY, as marines IRL are trained to stay down if they are dead in the center of cross-fire, and not try to get up, even if they need to make it to safety (hence the military term "pinned down" or "double pinned")

since this suggestion will PROOOBABLY never make it to staff, here is what I suggest instead.
have a little green or RED icon above a marine, or in the lower corner, this will tell someone if they want to shoot near them when they go down, this in and of itself would be MASSIVELY useful against the xeno's and tell marines if the marine pounced wants them to fire at the xeno, or not.

you could even COMBINE these two suggestions, this would make marines in my opinion ... SOOOO much more effective.

or ... you could even add a crawl mechanic, and just let the players create a macro that if they get jumped, they auto-magically rest, and they just crawl.



alright, since none of those suggestions will PROBABLY make it up to staff to implement, here is what I have been thinking up:

since about half of all marines get jumped by surprise and most of their comrades don't have their weapons (since they are likely in a fort) fully in both hands, you have 2-3 options:

wait until marines fire (xeno will most likely break your bones, this requires a rest macro)
get up and run (both may break your bones, you can always find a gun laying around)
get up and fight (what most marines do, though the most likely to end in broken bones)


I will be posting on how to improve your anti-FF abilities as a marine shortly.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Crab_Spider » 11 Sep 2017, 14:48

Mizolo, you're going to have to wait until suggestions re-open like the rest of us.
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Tidomann » 11 Sep 2017, 15:07

Crab_Spider wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 14:48
Mizolo, you're going to have to wait until suggestions re-open like the rest of us.
^^^^

That being said I'm not sure a crawl mechanic will likely be reintroduced.

Marines just need to know to hold off on runner pounces or start using rest.

Having to press a button to get up, or adding a delay to getting up won't be friendly to new players, even if it's aimed at helping marines in the long run.

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Heckenshutze » 11 Sep 2017, 17:01

We had a crawl mechanic once in a round as a test. The result was a lot of salty xenos screaming because of that, however, it was just a test and not an implementation but I don't see this in the near future.

My advice: don't shoot runners when pouncing because they have no stun and you'll 90% of the time shoot the marine.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by mizolo » 11 Sep 2017, 17:02

i've literally been writing a marine guide AND a FF guide for the past couple of hours
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Symbiosis » 11 Sep 2017, 21:56

Aim at Head.
Always buckshot ON the Runner that pounces Murry.
Headband deflects any buckshot even if you are too slow to react to pounce.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by solidfury7 » 11 Sep 2017, 23:41

Fire one shot, xenos usually panic and back off.

Or use flamer and set both alight (hunters only) and then put out the marine. Better to be crispy than have broken bones.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Crab_Spider » 12 Sep 2017, 00:03

solidfury7 wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 23:41
Fire one shot, xenos usually panic and back off.

Or use flamer and set both alight (hunters only) and then put out the marine. Better to be crispy than have broken bones.

Can confirm, husked to a crisp before I can be saved. Thanks Reality Ensues!
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by JKincaid » 12 Sep 2017, 02:50

solidfury7 wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 23:41
Fire one shot, xenos usually panic and back off.

Or use flamer and set both alight (hunters only) and then put out the marine. Better to be crispy than have broken bones.
That's nothing, I once SADAR'd three marines who were being clawed in the head by three hunters and a spitter, we saved everyone of them.

Editing this just a bit: I didn't shoot the marines on purpose, I actually fired behind them because the ayys were keeping the marines between us and them, and the rocket fell short. Sadly didn't have M39 because Req ran out and there was only one other active marine with me.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Hulkamania » 12 Sep 2017, 12:16

Heckenshutze wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 17:01
We had a crawl mechanic once in a round as a test. The result was a lot of salty xenos screaming because of that, however, it was just a test and not an implementation but I don't see this in the near future.

My advice: don't shoot runners when pouncing because they have no stun and you'll 90% of the time shoot the marine.
The crawl mechanic was a little unfair to be... fair. The whole idea of pouncing is that it puts you in a vulnerable position but you get rewarded by having the downed marine. But xenos were running into a situation where EVERY time they pounced, the marine would crawl away a tile and suddenly they were absolutely vulnerable and didn't even get much damage down on the marine either. It more or less invalidated the pounce altogether as a single marine removal tool.

That being said, you can always run up and stab em with your boot knife!
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Heckenshutze » 12 Sep 2017, 12:33

Hulkamania wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 12:16
The crawl mechanic was a little unfair to be... fair. The whole idea of pouncing is that it puts you in a vulnerable position but you get rewarded by having the downed marine. But xenos were running into a situation where EVERY time they pounced, the marine would crawl away a tile and suddenly they were absolutely vulnerable and didn't even get much damage down on the marine either. It more or less invalidated the pounce altogether as a single marine removal tool.

That being said, you can always run up and stab em with your boot knife!
Stabbing ends in both you and the downed marine to get burnt even to critical. Or worse, getting tackle spammed before doing anything; It's better to shoot or don't shoot at all, again, if it's a runner don't shoot, if it's a hunter, pointblank buckshot or burstfire pulse rifle.

Also the whole xeno mechanic is based on "unfairness" from a online game point of view. I wouldn't mind if they get a taste of that unfairness once in a while
Last edited by Heckenshutze on 12 Sep 2017, 12:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Crab_Spider » 12 Sep 2017, 12:36

Heckenshutze wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 12:33
The whole xeno mechanic is based on unfairness.. I think they deserve a spoon of their own medicine once in a while
...
What?
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Harrow13B » 12 Sep 2017, 13:53

So what is the best thing to do? I just had a round where I shot at the pounced marine and the alien ,only I forgot my GL was still activated, and it exploded on them both, and then we both shot the alien as it ran off, she then said "Good job , would have done the same" so apparently she wasn't too hurt by the explosion. Unfortunately the alien lived too, weak grenades huh?

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Heckenshutze » 12 Sep 2017, 14:01

Harrow13B wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 13:53
So what is the best thing to do? I just had a round where I shot at the pounced marine and the alien ,only I forgot my GL was still activated, and it exploded on them both, and then we both shot the alien as it ran off, she then said "Good job , would have done the same" so apparently she wasn't too hurt by the explosion. Unfortunately the alien lived too, weak grenades huh?
Best thing to do? If it's a runner don't shoot because the pounced marine will get up in less than a second and most of the times you'll only shoot the marine and not the xeno.

If it's a hunter give it lead because both xeno and marine won't be able to move for a short moment and you'll hit and sometimes kill the hunter without hurting the marine that much.
Crab_Spider wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 12:36
...
What?
Stunlocks, tacklespams, pouncelock, able to slash and tackle while crit, 1 hit critical spits that ignore barricades, 1 hit kill gas clouds that ignore barricades..

Do I continue?

It's the perfect unbalance we want in the game, but whatever you want to call it, it's not a fair 50/50 game. Everyone knows it and it's intended to be that way. No need to shed xeno salt.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Crab_Spider » 12 Sep 2017, 14:21

Heckenshutze wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 14:01
Stunlocks, tacklespams, pouncelock, able to slash and tackle while crit, 1 hit critical spits that ignore barricades, 1 hit kill gas clouds that ignore barricades..

Do I continue?

It's the perfect unbalance we want in the game, but whatever you want to call it, it's not a fair 50/50 game. Everyone knows it and it's intended to be that way. No need to shed xeno salt.
You can't slash or tackle in crit, only while stunned, and even then,you put yourself in that position. Everything else is RNG. If you want to talk about fairness, play on Yogstation, try to fight a xenomorph (in which every caste can lay weeds, and every disarm will stun you regardless of what you do), and come back to me on the topic.
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Heckenshutze » 12 Sep 2017, 15:08

Crab_Spider wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 14:21
You can't slash or tackle in crit, only while stunned, and even then,you put yourself in that position. Everything else is RNG. If you want to talk about fairness, play on Yogstation, try to fight a xenomorph (in which every caste can lay weeds, and every disarm will stun you regardless of what you do), and come back to me on the topic.
You can do it being in critical I even made a bug topic about that but it seems it's something intended.

Putting another server on the table is stupid because it's a different game with it's own values and mechanics.. I could say the same about Goonstation where a toolbox is a weapon of mass robustness while in CM it's more than an object of construction so don't come to me with that shit, this is colonial marines where humans can survive a sadar to the head and a xeno can be killed with fists.

I invite you to fight a xeno or a predator on Goon then, where everything reduces to who can stun who and without the need of weeds because doesn't matter how much you hit the alien, with three hits you're done for even with all the armor you could have. It's the same stupid logic you using.

Nevertheless everything you could say to support your opinion reduces to a single question: Why xenos have more wins than marines? Even having less numbers and marines having so much tech and weaponry? ..

It is not because they're god like players, the newest of players can create havoc as a xeno meanwhile as a marine he won't. Even then, yogstation doesn't have the speed modified any veteran ss13 player could kill anything bare handed if they're at the same speed no matter how strong it is, in a game where speed and stuns matters that is.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by lcass123 » 13 Sep 2017, 13:47

Crawling is a good mechanic idea but it really needs a rework for it to be added, you should be able to crawl in crit and should be able to crawl away from xenos when pounced after a small delay. Why? Prevents the insta death that is encountering a hunter in open combat with marines nearby who haven't wielded their guns.

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by OatzAndHoes » 17 Sep 2017, 18:50

Just hotkey rest. When you get pounced near a group of marines hit the hotkey and let them fire away.

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Mook476 » 17 Sep 2017, 20:54

When you get pounced be prepared to get hit with 250 rounds, 25 buckshot, 1 slug, and husked to death.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Cairath » 17 Sep 2017, 23:42

Being pounced means you were out of position. If a hunter pounces you when you're where you should, the hunter dies. When advancing, try to make sure you're covered. Also, when a runner pounces someone, don't shoot. Runner pounces do not last long.

There's also a secret tip: Dodge!
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by caleeb101 » 26 Sep 2017, 06:54

bullets love to sink into pounced marines anyways. the only ways to guarantee a hit on a hunter that has pounced a marine are either:
A. pointblank

B. melee

anything else and you're probably going to be helping your downed buddy on his/her way to the afterlife
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by thfoxpz » 02 Dec 2017, 08:29

You can 'rest' after a pounce and tell the guy to shoot the damn xeno. I think it works.
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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Jerkface00 » 04 Dec 2017, 10:23

mizolo wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 14:08
implement a game mechanic (that can be toggled) on whether or NOT to try to get up after a pounce, or try to get up after a set ammount of time that you can set, like 5 seconds, or even 10, or just turn it off and try to get up immediately
So... rest?

It's a verb. You will stay laying down until you enter the verb again. You can even make a macro for it.

Edit: lots of people* beat me to it. That's what I get for not reading every reply.

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Crab_Spider » 04 Dec 2017, 10:51

Resting while stunned is a nullified action.
You will never be as bad as the baldie who picked up a tactical shotgun while a hunter was pouncing on top of a CMO for 4 seconds, with his only response being to pace around before being decap'd by said hunter. You are not Brett Kimple, and you never will be. You are not the reason why I regular MP.

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Re: I GOT POUNCED HALP ... WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME WTF!!! I'M DEAD NOW!!!

Post by Miranda » 06 Jan 2018, 11:35

Just aim at a tile past the runner/hunter this way you will not hit the pounced marine.
Marine usually get up few seconds after alien can move it depends on age of an alien.
If im not gunner i usually shoot only few times while there is any around and they are not slow.
It's a huge source of ff but it's a huge source of alien deaths too~
The rule is "don't get pounced")

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