Let's talk about Ice colony.

Generic, on-topic discussion about Colonial Marines.
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Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Gnorse » 25 Dec 2017, 11:04

Ever since Ice Colony was added, I've noticed that people either love it or hate it, with nothing inbetween.
So I decided to make a threat where people can say why they love it or why they hate it.

As for me, I Absolutely hate the Tcomms Placement, and I've noticed that the squad who's duty is to repair Tcomms almost always gets wiped out.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by xywenx00 » 25 Dec 2017, 11:16

I love it mainly because of the atmosphere it has. I feel really at home, almost like real siberia.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Jeser » 25 Dec 2017, 11:26

Well, you basically did voice main problem with Ice: Tcomms placement. Following CM tradition, mappers made LZ1 best FoB location because of better defending qualities. While at the same time they put Tcomms on another side of map. If you want to quick-access Tcomms, you need to use LZ2, but after recent changes from possible FoB location it became a useless LZ with the only purpose of quick Tcomms access and emergency medevac. And, considering that aliens often keep an eye on that LZ, sending one squad on Normandy to Tcomms can resut in squad sustaining casualties from round start. Adding maintenace tunnels made LZ2 easily breachable, so it doesn't considered as FoB spot anymore.

But, this is not the only problem with map. Snow slowing you down, cold slowing you down making marines very vulnerable, considering that in SS13, sadly, speed is very important for fights. Also death without coifs, which means if you got facehugged and dragged away from coif, you have quite few chances to get out alive even if no xeno around - other three maps don't have any of these straight nerfs to marine sides.

Then, problems with two Z-Levels. First, it was quite interesting idea, to have 2-levels map, but ladders camping proved that wrong. Especailly after change how ladders work, so neither party can come down in force and not one by one, so everyone will turtle much more before finally going through ladders.

As for aliens side, I find it underground still quite mazeish and difficult to navigate and quite boring.


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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Rustarus » 25 Dec 2017, 11:40

I like it because it gives engineers something more than just building barricades, managing power more. Fixing APCs and the such. However, I dislike how big it is, because it's hard as fuck to win as marines, and laggy as well. However, still a good map.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Wubs4Scrubs » 25 Dec 2017, 11:53

I've gone from loving Ice Colony to being skeptical. Those who like Ice like it purely for the atmosphere, I maintain that the snowy setting creates a great setting for RP and I think that it has amazing potential. Any time I set foot on Ice I get "The Thing" flashbacks and that alone could make me like the map.

However, the snowy setting of Ice is also its greatest flaw. The gameplay on the map is painful since the slow down from the snow leads to unavoidable deaths. Examples being that you can't escape boiler gas because your marine is too slow so you end up dying, or a crusher is charging and you literally can't unwield your gun and move out of the way fast enough to avoid instant death.

EDIT: To put it simply, the atmosphere IS amazing and great for RP. However the time it takes to gear up and actually deploy only to be instantly killed due to no fault of your own isn't fun and leads player to feeling like they just wasted 45 minutes.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Simo94 » 25 Dec 2017, 12:19

I love it as a xeno and hate it as a marine, simple as that.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by BladeBr » 25 Dec 2017, 12:22

I love it as marine since when I CMP, the most fun parts of my life revolves aroubd Ice.

All the time.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Jroinc1 » 25 Dec 2017, 12:23

There are a coupla issues with Ice Colony currently, though most of them can be dealt with, at least on an individual level.

Tcomms- Tcomms WILL go out and stay out, if it ever goes on. It's the only map with this problem (In prison and big-red, the APC is next to the LZ and easy to guard). The one counterplay against losing comms is to bring radios. Turn the speaker on, leave the mic off till you have to talk, and toss it in your pack. Autolathes can make them. Have the RO/CT's hand out one with EVERY set of attachments, or at a MINIMUM, pass one to each SL so that the squads can communicate.

This leads to a bit of a multi-tiered order scheme, with SO's using their magic messages to communicate with SL's/the squad, and those messages getting broadcasted through the radio network by whoever has the radio, but at least it works.

Slowdowns- There are 3 slowdowns on Ice Colony- Snow, cold, and severe cold.

Snow can be dealt with by shoveling it out of the way. Boring, but not that hard.

Cold and severe cold are the same thing (body temp above/below 40F respectively). Our armor is designed to only partially protect us from the cold, for "ambiance". Therefore, if you want to keep warm, you can either ditch the armor for a firesuit (risky, but permanent), or pack coffee. ONE sip of coffee will reset your body temperature to 98F and hold it there while metabolizing. Don't drink 120u and die, bring a coupla cups (you can fill them with MORE than they come with out of the vendor) and take a sip every time you see that temp indicator pop up (it takes like 10 seconds to metabolize, be patient). Sidenote- as medic, you NEED to be the fastest you can be. Fill a syringe case with 180u of coffee as a reserve. Fill the case up every chance you get.
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Atmos bombs built- 16
Hull breaches repaired- 6
Charged SMs manually dragged to space- 2
Backup tcomms systems set- 4
SM de-lamination weapons detonated- 0
Times I've burned half the ship to a crisp- 5
Times I've burned half the ship to a crisp ACCIDENTALLY- 2
Engine SMs de-laminated on my watch- 0

Upper deck engines made-1
Lower deck engines made-1

Total kills with SM- 6

Most surgeries done at once- 3
Most anesthetic tanks used in a round- 3
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Most perdiox made w/in 5 min of roundstart- 540u

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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Renomaki » 25 Dec 2017, 13:11

I don't quite HATE ice colony, so much as I wish it was improved upon.

It already has some really great gimmicks and content that make it special compared to the other maps, such as the ability to create snow trenches, dealing with the freezing cold, and the fact that the map is so HUGE and ROOMY, allowing for massive battles to take place with everyone shooting and running around instead of being stuck in a bottleneck where only 2-3 people can really fight at a time.

But what kills it for me are 3 things: Tcomms, LZ2, and the fact that it is a two level map.

Tcomms is VITAL for marines in order to coordinate movements, and losing it can be insanely crippling. Just recently I had a match as NCO where our SO, for whatever reason, ordered us to attack LZ2 while comms were down. Naturally, I refused at first because there was no way I could rally all my troops. But after being constantly harassed about it, I gathered up what few men I could and tried to march to Tcomms... Only to have to retreat halfway there because we were being hammered and had no way to call for additional support. The reason Tcomms was down in the first place? Because Delta was unable to reach it before the xenos swarmed them at LZ2, probably moments after they landed. It is one thing to have Tcomms be across the map, but LZ2 is another issue alltogether.

LZ2 used to be in a decent enough spot. It was on the surface, near engineering, and would have been near Tcomms as well due to its placement. However, in an attempt to make underground assaults easier, they reworked it so LZ2 would be an underground LZ, which seemed like a good idea on paper, but in practice, it evolved into a death sentence for anyone going via DS2 on first deployment. Almost EVERY TIME, xenos will mass upon LZ2 the moment they discover their landing, and try to trap and kill everyone they can before they escape, sometimes even rushing the Almayer after a successful slaughter. And in the event that the xenos don't outright rush LZ2? Well, you better hope the squad you sent down are smart enough to rush the elevator instead of trying to take on the xeno hive early, which most marines have a habit of doing due to the delusion of "strike them before they mature and you win", which is dead wrong because even young xenos can fuck you up if you aren't careful, and I see it happen a lot.

But these two issues could be easily fixed if only they remade the map to be a single level, instead of a two-level map. Every map we have so far other than ICE are single-level maps, allowing both sides to field all their forces without any issue. But ICE forces you to funnel your troops through ladders and elevators, which can be easily camped and denied, thus making an attack more difficult, let alone getting the majority of your troops even in the combat zone!

I like Ice Colony to a degree, but it has so many issues that hold it back from greatness...
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Renomaki » 25 Dec 2017, 13:13

Jroinc1 wrote:
25 Dec 2017, 12:23
ONE sip of coffee will reset your body temperature to 98F and hold it there while metabolizing. Don't drink 120u and die, bring a coupla cups (you can fill them with MORE than they come with out of the vendor) and take a sip every time you see that temp indicator pop up (it takes like 10 seconds to metabolize, be patient). Sidenote- as medic, you NEED to be the fastest you can be. Fill a syringe case with 180u of coffee as a reserve. Fill the case up every chance you get.
I find that weird that only COFFEE does that, but not hot cocoa?

Why is that?
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Jroinc1 » 25 Dec 2017, 13:34

Renomaki wrote:
25 Dec 2017, 13:13
I find that weird that only COFFEE does that, but not hot cocoa?

Why is that?
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3 Nov 16-15 Jan 17

Atmos bombs built- 16
Hull breaches repaired- 6
Charged SMs manually dragged to space- 2
Backup tcomms systems set- 4
SM de-lamination weapons detonated- 0
Times I've burned half the ship to a crisp- 5
Times I've burned half the ship to a crisp ACCIDENTALLY- 2
Engine SMs de-laminated on my watch- 0

Upper deck engines made-1
Lower deck engines made-1

Total kills with SM- 6

Most surgeries done at once- 3
Most anesthetic tanks used in a round- 3
Most surgeries done using only personal supplies- 37
Most perdiox made w/in 5 min of roundstart- 540u

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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Simo94 » 25 Dec 2017, 14:21

IMO Ice Colony needs to be 1 Z level. xenos spawn on the west side of the map (the side no one uses), make indoors warm but tight, outdoors open but cold and snowy, that could be interesting.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Heckenshutze » 25 Dec 2017, 14:33

Hate it as marine and predator. Never play it as xeno so you can really tell I don't like it.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Jeser » 25 Dec 2017, 15:56

One more issue is that marines can't do anything about cold. Heaters are good only for not letting you freeze in one place, basically. Why Req doesn't have some special options specifically for Ice? Making campfires, I dunno, I can't think up of anything right now, sleepy a bit, but still. Marines only way to deal with cold is coffee. Which is one of main problems too.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Jenner » 25 Dec 2017, 17:53

I don't know why people complain about Tcomms. The map requires drastically different tactics compared to the rest of them, where even on big red Tcomms is a simple fix and forget situation, on ICE you need a squad to defend it. A Tcomms defense is actually really easy, as DS2 is an elevator away (although don't depend on that since it's quite risky) and you can keep yourself supplied via SBs. The biggest issue with Tcomms is incompetent engineers and SLs who don't put their foot down. You need to establish that you're gonna fortify Tcomms and reign in your troops when they try something stupid like push out.

Also, avoid underground like the plague until you weaken the xenos, then push from LZ2 and Tcomms elevators with multiple squads, with a followup push from hangar or dorms for that sweet sweet flank. And never travel out in the open with any less than 4 marines if you can help it, as each second you spend out in the snow increases your chances of getting attacked and dragged off or killed outright.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by spookydonut » 25 Dec 2017, 21:58

What annoys me is that upper and lower medbay aren't in the same place connected by ladders.

Also TComms.

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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Mac » 25 Dec 2017, 22:56

I find when it's Ice Colony I'm far more inclined to take a role on the ship. The RP is there, but the map itself just isn't very fun to play on from a gameplay perspective.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Renomaki » 25 Dec 2017, 23:44

Jenner wrote:
25 Dec 2017, 17:53
I don't know why people complain about Tcomms. The map requires drastically different tactics compared to the rest of them, where even on big red Tcomms is a simple fix and forget situation, on ICE you need a squad to defend it. A Tcomms defense is actually really easy, as DS2 is an elevator away (although don't depend on that since it's quite risky) and you can keep yourself supplied via SBs. The biggest issue with Tcomms is incompetent engineers and SLs who don't put their foot down. You need to establish that you're gonna fortify Tcomms and reign in your troops when they try something stupid like push out.
The problem with that is that people don't like being forced to sit around one place to defend, while everyone else is goin out and kickin ass (and dying horribly).

This is already an issue with FoB squads, where people will complain and bitch and moan, and in the worst cases just outright go AWOL because they don't want to babysit a VITAL POSITION that xenos WILL ATTACK if poorly guarded, when they could be going on the attack and having !fun!. This can be fixed by having NCOs form perimeter patrol teams to give some of their more restless squad members something to do, but it can only be so effective and relies on your squad not being 5-year olds who are willing to play along.

Having TWO squads constantly on guard duty will no doubt make a lot of people bitter, and have quite the impact on morale on the long run as people freeze their family jewels off with little to occupy their minds. The fact that Tcomms is so out of the way doesn't help matters much either. At least with the FoB squad, you are bound to play a vital role in the defense or act as a reinforcing group at some point, but Tcomms Defenders tend to just sit where they are, vying for glory. You COULD drag em out, but depending on the hive, there is great risk to leaving Tcomms alone for just a mere moment, while other hives tend to be more lax and willing to play nice. And then there is the Hive that sets up RIGHT IN TCOMMS just to be dicks.

It is true that ICE, like any map, has their own strategies for COs to consider, but ICE tends to be pretty brutal compared to other maps in that regard.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Jeser » 26 Dec 2017, 01:29

One of the main things also, that not any other map kills only one faction by itself, while not affecting second one. This is biggest bullshit on this map aside of Tcomms. Talking about coif thing and slowliness. Never saw 3-4 marines getting wiped by one Prae from the screen border because they can't move quickly enough to chase it, or to effectively dodge spits? I saw, and not once.
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Jenner » 26 Dec 2017, 01:34

Renomaki wrote:
25 Dec 2017, 23:44
The problem with that is that people don't like being forced to sit around one place to defend, while everyone else is goin out and kickin ass (and dying horribly).

This is already an issue with FoB squads, where people will complain and bitch and moan, and in the worst cases just outright go AWOL because they don't want to babysit a VITAL POSITION that xenos WILL ATTACK if poorly guarded, when they could be going on the attack and having !fun!. This can be fixed by having NCOs form perimeter patrol teams to give some of their more restless squad members something to do, but it can only be so effective and relies on your squad not being 5-year olds who are willing to play along.

Having TWO squads constantly on guard duty will no doubt make a lot of people bitter, and have quite the impact on morale on the long run as people freeze their family jewels off with little to occupy their minds. The fact that Tcomms is so out of the way doesn't help matters much either. At least with the FoB squad, you are bound to play a vital role in the defense or act as a reinforcing group at some point, but Tcomms Defenders tend to just sit where they are, vying for glory. You COULD drag em out, but depending on the hive, there is great risk to leaving Tcomms alone for just a mere moment, while other hives tend to be more lax and willing to play nice. And then there is the Hive that sets up RIGHT IN TCOMMS just to be dicks.

It is true that ICE, like any map, has their own strategies for COs to consider, but ICE tends to be pretty brutal compared to other maps in that regard.
You make valid points but I've found that when a hive discovers a sizable defense at Tcomms they try to push it, as a squad in a cut off position of importance is a much easier target of opportunity than a DS supplied FOB. A boring defense mission becomes a stressful yet vital defense of the most important structure on-planet.

And you don't need a full squad, as me and Sally as 2 delta engies singlehandedly held Tcomms for the duration of groundside operations on our FOB skills alone, evacing via DS2 once we thought we couldn't hold it any longer, when infact the 2 sentries we left near the elevator held it for the rest of the Op unattended (which was roughly 5 or 6 minutes until DS1 evacuated LZ1).
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Re: Let's talk about Ice colony.

Post by Gnorse » 26 Dec 2017, 03:03

I Also would like to point out that it's impossible to resist out of nests if you get hugged since you'll be in perma pain-crit from cold.
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