Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

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Surrealistik
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Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Surrealistik » 15 Jun 2016, 14:04

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):

Give the Queen a Hive Management verb, that calls up the Hive Management window.


Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

Gives the Queen much needed control over the development and evolution of her brood, particularly as T2s and T3s are limited.

Server resource expenditures will be minimal being as calculations/procs only trigger on verb use as opposed to real time.


Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

The Hive Management window displays an index of all aliens with the following information:

Alien name species and upgrade level, Active/Inactive Status, Health (as a %), Plasma (current and max), Evolution Points, Location Name, Location Coordinates, Relative Distance (in tiles relative to the Queen), Relative Location (cardinal direction relative to queen), Evolution Permissions. This would obviate the need for the Hive Status interface, the functionality of which is rolled into this feature.

The Queen can hivemind whisper to individual aliens from this interface, and can give them specific orders to follow in addition to her general orders.

Evolution Permissions can be set by the Queen for every alien in a Hive from this interface, letting her precisely determine which alien species an alien can evolve into and giving her more exact control over her Hive. The interface will also display the total number of available T2 and T3 evolutions remaining.

By default, all T1 evolution types are enabled for all aliens, and all T2 and T3s are restricted.

Evolutions can either be enabled individually in any combination or on a blanket basis (Only Hivelord, Hunter and Crusher, or all T3s evolutions allowed for a particular alien for example).

The Queen may also have the option to force a Xeno to de-evolve (most uncertain about this feature).

The Hive Management window only updates when its corresponding verb is used, or its refresh option is clicked to conserve server resources (with a possible update limit of 1 per second/couple of seconds).

As a fail safe, whenever the Queen goes SSD or AFK (for 3-5 minutes) or dies, all evolutions are unlocked for all aliens until the Queen stops being SSD/AFK or a new one is evolved, whereupon they revert to the most recent evolution permission settings. Admins will also be notified about when the failsafe triggers.


Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Coding.
Last edited by Surrealistik on 24 Dec 2016, 20:44, edited 17 times in total.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Yottawhat » 15 Jun 2016, 15:28

+1 This can solve the problem of two hivelords evolving and all the other castes being unable to get to Tier-3.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Boltersam » 15 Jun 2016, 17:56

This would be perfect for the Queen, a very minor gripe is the Alien name and caste/evolution are the same thing because aliens will never truly be easily recognised or be individuals. Grr.

+1, anyhow.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Wickedtemp » 15 Jun 2016, 19:07

+1

However this does bring up a whole new wave of potential issues. If the evolution permissions are off by default and the Queen is new or just sucks, Xenos wouldn't be able to grow. It also makes an already somewhat complex role even more-so. But other than "git gud", I'm unsure if there's a way to actually fix this.

I normally play as xeno, and I've seen a few issues where we need a Praetorian or a Crusher, but then someone decides to evolve and now we have another Carrier or Boiler. And while those are nice to have, without melee support they don't hold up too well. The Queen orders one caste to evolve, but some random xeno does so instead and takes up the slot. This would put a stop to such shenanigans, and would give the Queen much-needed control. If it gets abused, all it'll take is a player report to get it sorted.

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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by TeDGamer » 15 Jun 2016, 19:23

-1

I feel this is not needed.

First, the aliens have no free will, whatever the queen says, you have to do. There's no need to "whisper" when you can just say it over the hivemind.

Second, this is going to result in a lot of constant calculations, similar to the marine sensors. This is just goign to double up on whatever processing is needed to constantly update position and relative position, and the like.

This also seems needlessly complicated. If someone doesn't follow the queen's orders, that's just going to result in a job-ban. There's a reason for the RP.

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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Surrealistik » 15 Jun 2016, 20:02

TeDGamer wrote:-1

I feel this is not needed.

First, the aliens have no free will, whatever the queen says, you have to do. There's no need to "whisper" when you can just say it over the hivemind.
This also seems needlessly complicated. If someone doesn't follow the queen's orders, that's just going to result in a job-ban. There's a reason for the RP.
How many Queens in practice have the time or inclination to actively police and dictate evolutions? How many Aliens actually listen? When they don't listen how often is it detected? When it is detected, how often does punishment result? In practice evolution log jams happen without fail virtually every game.
Second, this is going to result in a lot of constant calculations, similar to the marine sensors. This is just goign to double up on whatever processing is needed to constantly update position and relative position, and the like.
No it won't because the calculations aren't real time; they only ever happen when the Queen calls up the Hive Management verb; if she wants an update, she refreshes the index.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by TeDGamer » 15 Jun 2016, 20:08

Surrealistik wrote: How many Queens in practice have the time or inclination to actively police and dictate evolutions? How many Aliens actually listen? When they don't listen how often is it detected? When it is detected, how often does punishment result? In practice evolution log jams happen without fail virtually every game.

It's true that Queens don't have time to police and dictate these things.

Counterargument: At the same time, do queens have enough time to constantly use and update this hive interface? The time spent policing is about the time spent policing them on this interface as well. A lot of the times, aliens do listen. I've played as xenos a few times since the update and they wait on their queen.

It's true that it restricts the freedom of the aliens since they're slaves to the queen but will this really be fun? How about when the queen forgets or goes SSD?
No it won't because the calculations aren't real time; they only ever happen when the Queen calls up the Hive Management verb; if she wants an update, she refreshes the index.
Xenos already move very quickly. If it only updates at the time of the hive management is called up, how long will the queen take to type out information based on the current information before it's outdated?

Alright fine, then you'll ask them to refresh it but then there's the problem of constant calculations everytime it's called up.
Last edited by TeDGamer on 15 Jun 2016, 20:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Surrealistik » 15 Jun 2016, 20:14

TeDGamer wrote:It's true that Queens don't have time to police and dictate these things.

Counterargument: At the same time, do queens have enough time to constantly use and update this hive interface? The time spent policing is about the time spent policing them on this interface as well. A lot of the times, aliens do listen. I've played as xenos a few times since the update and they wait on their queen.

It's true that it restricts the freedom of the aliens since they're slaves to the queen but will this really be fun? How about when the queen forgets or goes SSD?
I imagine there would be a failsafe in the case of SSD/Queen death where evolutions are completely unlocked/unrestricted until a new Queen is born/is no longer SSD whereupon the most recent settings resume; I'll update the OP to clarify.

That said, the Hive Management interface consolidates a great deal of data and makes active and effective hive management much more time efficient and tenable, which is the point. Unless the Queen is aiding in an assault, she definitely has enough time to glimpse the index and set evolution permissions.
Xenos already move very quickly. If it only updates at the time of the hive management is called up, how long will the queen take to type out information based on the current information before it's outdated?

Alright fine, then you'll ask them to refresh it but then there's the problem of constant calculations everytime it's called up.
It does not produce real time calculations when called up; rather it produces a snap shot/freeze frame of data which is accurate as of the time the index is called.

Further, only a couple of Xenos move very quickly. That said, even if some of the info you see ends up slightly outdated, (by say a second or so), it's definitely still useful for monitoring the Hive and gives the Queen far more useful information at a glance than she ever had in the past.
Last edited by Surrealistik on 15 Jun 2016, 20:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Wickedtemp » 15 Jun 2016, 20:18

If Queen is SSD/AFK for 10 minutes, evolution restrictions are removed. Sounds good to me personally.

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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by TeDGamer » 15 Jun 2016, 20:23

As long as it has failsafes against SSD, dead, and afk, then I'm fine with that. That just needs to be tuned.

I still feel that there will be a bit of lag produced everytime the interface is called up because how much can the queen type / get across to a certain alien before needing to constantly refresh and do it over?

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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Surrealistik » 15 Jun 2016, 20:28

I IDed failsafe conditions for SSD/AFK of 3-5 minutes and death.

Assuming you refresh immediately after say every sentence, you'll be calling the procs probably once every ~5-10 seconds maximum. How many queens do you expect to legitimately and consistently refresh in the middle of the sentence? Even if they do, that's still going to be a proc once every ~3-5 seconds, which is far less demanding than real time updates which proc every tick, whether you need them to or not.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Snypehunter007 » 15 Jun 2016, 20:59

TeDGamer wrote:
I still feel that there will be a bit of lag produced everytime the interface is called up because how much can the queen type / get across to a certain alien before needing to constantly refresh and do it over?
With the recent lag of 110+ usually, I don't think it will make too much of a difference for the server.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Sarah_U. » 15 Jun 2016, 21:01

Yottawhat wrote:+1 This can solve the problem of two hivelords evolving and all the other castes being unable to get to Tier-3.
I hate you all for still thinking that's the case <.>
Hivelord is a T2. Staop.
Larva (T0) -> Drone (T1) -> Hivelord (T2)

Idea seems good, but I'll stick to neutral. It's really game-changing and would limit some players making them feel all too limited and stuck on their options... Like playing the character of another player.
Furthermore, make it disabled by default so xenos can evolve untill the queen enforce that restriction.
CM was obviously inspired by Starcraft: Ghost opening. At least when marines takes too long to deploy.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by MrJJJ » 16 Jun 2016, 02:47

Sarah_U. wrote: I hate you all for still thinking that's the case <.>
Hivelord is a T2. Staop.
Larva (T0) -> Drone (T1) -> Hivelord (T2)
She is actually right, if you try evolving into a hivelord and there is no more slots, it will say that the hive can't support another T2

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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Surrealistik » 16 Jun 2016, 12:51

Either way his point that it prevents evolution log jams is true.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Iatots » 17 Jun 2016, 17:53

At least a T1/2/3 counter that gets updated on mob spawn/evolution so that the queen knows how many more T3 she can afford.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Surrealistik » 19 Jun 2016, 18:37

Iatots wrote:At least a T1/2/3 counter that gets updated on mob spawn/evolution so that the queen knows how many more T3 she can afford.
A window displaying the number of available T2/T3 slots remaining should be available for everyone.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Steelpoint » 20 Jun 2016, 01:32

Kinda off topic but it would be nice if the Queen and Commander had a /tg/ style mini map that displays the current planetside location of all their underlings.

On topic I think this is a good idea and it would allow a Queen to better control their hive.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Surrealistik » 23 Jun 2016, 15:47

Bump because still badly needed
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Toroic » 23 Jun 2016, 16:17

Not only are hivelords only Tier 2, they also are the slowest evolving tier 2 xeno, which means they are often locked out of evolving unless someone dies or upgrades early by choice.

I really like this idea, as it is very important for the queen to make sure critical roles are covered within the hive.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by TeDGamer » 24 Jun 2016, 01:44

After playing as an alien Queen, +1


This...is very tiring. Half the time some larva don't listen and go ayy lmao I'm going to be a runner and run into that mine


FOR THE HIV...*BOOM*

Or someone else evoles and you lose that precious crusher spot

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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Surrealistik » 24 Jun 2016, 14:24

Toroic wrote:Not only are hivelords only Tier 2, they also are the slowest evolving tier 2 xeno, which means they are often locked out of evolving unless someone dies or upgrades early by choice.

I really like this idea, as it is very important for the queen to make sure critical roles are covered within the hive.
Needs more +1. :p

And yeah, personally I think this feature is essential given the cap; when everyone does their own thing, you often end up with stupid, imbalanced, lopsided compositions, where important castes like Hivelords or Crushers end up missing.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Toroic » 24 Jun 2016, 15:18

Surrealistik wrote: Needs more +1. :p

And yeah, personally I think this feature is essential given the cap; when everyone does their own thing, you often end up with stupid, imbalanced, lopsided compositions, where important castes like Hivelords or Crushers end up missing.
Unfortunately the end result currently is a lot more feast or famine on the xeno side and they've incorporated a lot of the issues marines have.

Crusher is my favorite caste, and the one I have the most experience as. I block shots for other xenos, I cover their retreats, I chain my stomps with the queen screeches. Unless I start as a xeno, get jelly quickly, /and/ spitters don't upgrade to boilers and steal all of the T3 slots, I won't have an oppurtunity to play to my potential as the caste I am best at, and instead have to watch two crushers charge a turret and die as a result.

We also are going to run into problems where if we ever add a way for xeno players to be recognized ooc by other xeno players (something I think has been a good idea forever) in that a queen is likely to show favoritism. Xenos don't have a community the way marine players do, and while that keeps the snowflake population low, it also makes it hard to know which xenos you can rely on, something that marines don't have to worry about as much.

I like the upgrade system, but ultimately I think xenos were updated to benefit marine gameplay, not xeno gameplay.
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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by outordinary » 24 Jun 2016, 22:35

+1 This is a pretty solid solution to the problem presented by the latest update.

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Re: Add Hive Management Interface for Queen

Post by Nyvrem » 28 Jun 2016, 15:26

+1 Very needed with the new update indeed.
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