Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

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Steelpoint
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Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Steelpoint » 11 Apr 2017, 07:34

This is less a suggestion and more a discussion.

One of the issues I see in game and on the forums is the lack of diversity in weapon choice, you essentially get a choice between one rifle, one shotgun, one smg and two pistols. While we have a very large array of weapons on offer, but the majority of those are locked off to most players on a large scale, maybe one Marine out of thirty or forty plus might get a M41AE2 or something similar mid way through a round.

One concept I was thinking about is the idea of offering Marine standards the choice of selecting from one of several variants of M41A Mk2s. The idea being that the difference between the weapons would be less like the M41A versus the M41AE2 or the Battle Rifle, but more how you compare weapons akin to Team Fortress 2, such as having the default Rocket Launcher against the Direct Hit, neither is better than the other, and in fact the original Stock weapon is usually slightly better, but it introduces variety

To give a example I'll put down two ideas for variations of the M41A, while trying to stick to lore friendly material.

  • M41 Pulse Rifle - Older generation Pulse Rifle (Several AvP Games feature it). Holds 99 rounds per magazine, however suffers from several major drawbacks. The magazines are larger than usual, thus they can only fit in a backpack (and the magazines take up more backpack space than normal). The weapon cannot accept any attachments except for the Underbarrel Grenade Launcher. The weapon frequently jams, forcing the user to eject the current magazine in order to fix the jam. In addition the weapon deals slightly less damage per round. With this weapon, your getting a gun with a lot of ammo, but you accept that the weapon suffers from being very unreliable and prone to jamming, is not versatile and you need to free a lot of backpack space to carry spare magazines.
  • NSG 23 Assault Rifle - Mid range assault rifle. Comes pre-equipped with a Underbarrel Flamethrower and deals slightly more damage per bullet, and has better armour penetration. However, the weapon is locked onto burst fire permanently. It suffers from lower than average accuracy. Furthermore it is limited to a 30 round magazine, and cannot accept M41A magazines. Also the underbarrel Flamethrower cannot be removed, only replaced. This weapon is more dedicated as a closer range rifle, you deal more damage and hit harder, but you cannot effectively engage enemies at range, and your ammo supply is very limited, considering you have less ammo per magazine, and you use different magazines to the standard M41A line.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Casany » 11 Apr 2017, 08:09

I think this is a good idea, but I dunno.

I do agree that we lack variety in our weapon choices. Even with the new battle rifle, there's only one on the entire map unless cargo gets SUPER lucky or wastes all their points
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Steelpoint » 11 Apr 2017, 08:30

The problem with this is that the M41AE2 and the M4RA are both superior to the M41A. The M41AE2 has 100 rounds per magazine and deals more damage per bullet with no real drawbacks, the M4RA not only comes pre-equipped with some of the most coveted attachments, a Rail Scope and the useful M41A Stock, but it uses special marksman ammo that deals a lot of damage per bullet. Not only that but it can also load and fire regular M41A rounds, giving it excellent versatility.

Outside of Cargo RNG or adding a new Marine role that has access to them, there's no real way to balance out those two weapons if you want to issue them more commonly without massively nerfing them because they are just really powerful, while not at the same level as a Smartgun (M41AE2) or a Scoped Rifle (M4RA), but they are still a massive step above the M41A.

I think having minor variation weapons that had minor advantages and disadvantages would be a better way to add viarity to the Marine Standard arsenal.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Tristan63 » 11 Apr 2017, 08:40

While not canon, these model kits look like some pretty cool alternatives.
http://www.spatcave.com/spulse.htm

Maybe an automatic shotgun conversion for the pulse rifle that fires shells and holds 20 rounds?
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby immaspaceninja » 11 Apr 2017, 08:40

How about we adjust those new reworked marksman rifles and put them in colmar vendors?
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Casany » 11 Apr 2017, 08:44

immaspaceninja wrote:How about we adjust those new reworked marksman rifles and put them in colmar vendors?

I would rather them not be nerfed into he ground and made useless just so we can have them in vendors
Last edited by Casany on 11 Apr 2017, 09:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby TheMusician321 » 11 Apr 2017, 09:04

Good ideas here, it would be nice to have a different set of guns with their differing advantages and disadvantages.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby immaspaceninja » 11 Apr 2017, 09:58

Casany wrote:I would rather them not be nerfed into he ground and made useless just so we can have them in vendors

They dont need nerfing tho. Even right now theyre not more powerful than our basic m41 rifles. The only thing that makes them stronger when they're ordered via cargo is high velocity mags that come along with them. If we just put them in colmar vendors without any hv mags they'll be alright.

UPD: yeah, and scopes. Maybe we should put them there without scopes and that'll be it.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby SecretStamos (Joshuu) » 11 Apr 2017, 10:05

I worry if we give the marines too many weapons, they'll stop feeling like a military faction and more like a crockpot of dudes with guns.

You're supposed to be a simple rifleman with your simple rifle. A lot of the choices come from the attachments you pick, or the gear you take in addition, rather than the exact gun in your hands.

We've got some ideas to improve customization without damaging immersion. Just will take some time to implement.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Karmac » 11 Apr 2017, 11:56

>customization

all I want is MK1 rifle unga dunga
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Swagile » 11 Apr 2017, 12:51

Adding these would be great, but the nerfs you suggest to the variety of weapons marines can choose makes the pulse rifle a superior choice.

Jamming? Yeah, no thanks, id rather stay alive than to jam right when I need my gun to fire the most as a Ravager charges at me and bonks on a wall. Plus ammo needing to be put in backpack and counts as more than one space in your backpack?

Waste of developer time as no one will use these weapons with such shitty draw backs.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Steelpoint » 11 Apr 2017, 13:04

I was giving a example, not stating what I exactly want in.

Its the general concept I'm pitching, not the actual weapon.

Geeze.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Bigchilly » 11 Apr 2017, 18:22

>limited amount of mk1's in marine vendors

>maybe orderable via cargo?


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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Renomaki » 11 Apr 2017, 21:50

I like the idea of giving standards a few more choices of shooter to select for an op. As is, the Pulse Rifle is the main go-to gun for every standard. The shotgun is sometimes found in their hands, and rarely the SMG is deployed as a main weapon simply because it doesn't do enough damage to satisfy people's tastes.

The thing is, does it have to be heavier guns?

I'd rather like to have a few more light weapons, like maybe a Uzi or a gun kinda like an M1 Carbine.

Weapons that aren't meant to compete with the Pulse Rifle, but can still stand on their own in the right hands. Would be nice to have more diversity that isn't focused on pure punch. After all, the SMG might not be a great xeno killer, but she still has her uses.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Casany » 11 Apr 2017, 22:46

The SMG is so much better than a pulse rifle if used right.

See, I use x to switch hands, so if I ever take an SMG I always take two and basically spam burstfire while hitting X, its continual fire with double the ammo and double the damage

It works real well if you have AP loaded in
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby 4thsurviver » 12 Apr 2017, 15:52

Casany wrote:The SMG is so much better than a pulse rifle if used right.

See, I use x to switch hands, so if I ever take an SMG I always take two and basically spam burstfire while hitting X, its continual fire with double the ammo and double the damage

It works real well if you have AP loaded in

I get the feeling if every standard started duel wielding SMGs we would see some massive nerfs to the SMGs.

I think it would be cool just to have some access to the old pulse rifles. That way people could just take that and get their 99 rounds mags and skip the RO line altogether without it becoming a huge mess. Then you could have people better able to use suppressing fire. I wouldn't mind a few battle rifles or similar marksman rifles but I wouldn't want too many weapon types.

It makes sense for supply reasons to have a standard weapon. The more weapons they add the more types of ammo need to be loaded into supply crates.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby kroack » 13 Apr 2017, 13:32

SecretStamos (Joshuu) wrote:I worry if we give the marines too many weapons, they'll stop feeling like a military faction and more like a crockpot of dudes with guns.

You're supposed to be a simple rifleman with your simple rifle. A lot of the choices come from the attachments you pick, or the gear you take in addition, rather than the exact gun in your hands.

We've got some ideas to improve customization without damaging immersion. Just will take some time to implement.


I think there's a tendency among players to think their marine is a CoD protagonist and that they get to use a bazillion different weapons throughout any one round. No. You're just a grunt.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby TheMaskedMan2 » 13 Apr 2017, 19:50

Eh, not really into this, you are issued standard gear for a grunt, unless you are lucky and cargo likes you, I'm fine with some more weapons, but just a million little variations of older versions and stuff? That makes no sense, why would a military vessel stock so many different models of the same weapon?
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Eenkogneeto » 13 Apr 2017, 20:13

Honestly, I would very much like to see a single change to the marines armory that would in my opinion vastly improve the variety available.
Make a limited amount of the old M41As available. The shitty old guns that have been at the back of the rack for years. They hold 99 of the same rounds you know and love delivered in bursts of 4 (5?) but are a bit less accurate... though they are just as reliable and get the job done and have since before most of the grunts could walk. It's an old dog and it can't learn many new tricks and as such most of the attachments don't fit on it, just your trusty bayonet, a rail light and some underslungs.

We already have them for some ERTs and events, I just think they are the perfect middleman between the rifle we have and the unwieldy barely usable (In my opinion) AE2, Aswell as actually properly filling the role of suppression that marines so love to do with every other gun they have.
It comes with its own obvious drawbacks already: No AP, Less accurate and scarcer ammo.

Also it has a really awesome firing sound. Hnnng.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Marcus Jackson » 16 Apr 2017, 22:30

SecretStamos (Joshuu) wrote:I worry if we give the marines too many weapons, they'll stop feeling like a military faction and more like a crockpot of dudes with guns.

You're supposed to be a simple rifleman with your simple rifle. A lot of the choices come from the attachments you pick, or the gear you take in addition, rather than the exact gun in your hands.

We've got some ideas to improve customization without damaging immersion. Just will take some time to implement.


You don't just play as the Marines, you play as Colonial-Space-Marines... some weapon variety is kind of expected. I like the idea of having the older rifles being an option both for clip size and the fact that only a few people are gonna use them if at all due to "Nut beun abruh to tuk ahl muh awsum atachmunts!", but some SMG and Shotgun variants wouldn't be off the table of beliveability.

I'm not saying to put every FPS fanboy's wet dreams into the vendors, but some diversity in marine load-outs will go a long way to changing up play-styles and logistics and keeping people interested.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Simo94 » 16 Apr 2017, 23:34

imo we need new categories of weapons, we already have a rifle, we need a ghetto LMG standards can use, and also a semi-auto rifle like M14, and if you are planning on an alternative rifle lemme just say...KALASHNIKOV!!!!!!
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Marcus Jackson » 17 Apr 2017, 11:21

Simo94 wrote:imo we need new categories of weapons, we already have a rifle, we need a ghetto LMG standards can use, and also a semi-auto rifle like M14, and if you are planning on an alternative rifle lemme just say...KALASHNIKOV!!!!!!


A low-dmg but high fire-rate weapon would be cool, semi auto isn't really necessary for fighting xenos, and for the Kalishnakov all I can say is "Meh"
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Garrison » 19 Apr 2017, 23:29

Casany wrote:I would rather them not be nerfed into he ground and made useless just so we can have them in vendors


Why not put them in the Cargo bay vendors then? that way the RO and CT's can dole the few they have to those who they see fit.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby eternalnight264 » 20 Apr 2017, 13:37

I do definitely think something along the lines of a light machine gun would be nice, something more readily available that is. (I know there are other sorts of firearms from Requisitions.) I sometimes concoct a makeshift LMG using a M41A, but something more dedicated is better.
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Re: Viable Alternative M41A Style Weapons?

Postby Caryl » 21 Apr 2017, 07:13

You know what we need? The S.H.A.R.P Rifles!
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