One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

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One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Tidomann » 15 Jul 2017, 15:12

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Stow one weapon in your backpack slot, then stow another weapon in your suit slot. Keep your backpack in your hands.

This is how you get past MPs constantly harassing you for having two weapons.
Last edited by Tidomann on 15 Jul 2017, 15:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs Hate HIM!

Postby Jaketeaking » 15 Jul 2017, 15:13

yeah this doesnt work for some classes, Engineer for example...
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Re: One simple trick, MPs Hate HIM!

Postby Tidomann » 15 Jul 2017, 15:21

Jaketeaking wrote:yeah this doesnt work for some classes, Engineer for example...


Why not on engineers? I imagine it has something to do with having to lug crates down?
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Jaketeaking » 15 Jul 2017, 15:37

basically yeah, especially on lowpop, if you're the squads only engi, you carry ammo, metal, plasteel, turret, guns, and more
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Renomaki » 15 Jul 2017, 16:41

Jaketeaking wrote:basically yeah, especially on lowpop, if you're the squads only engi, you carry ammo, metal, plasteel, turret, guns, and more


The point of this isn't because it puts more strain on you, it is because it complies with the law in that you aren't allowed to run around swinging a gun about during code green.

The law doesn't say you can't run around with a backpack in your hand, though, so if you are planning to haul something like an SMG to go with your sniper rifle (or whatever and whatever), putting your extra gun on your back and holding your pack ensures that you comply with the law and can still bring what you want.

I still find it a bit excessive to bring two large guns when a pistol or revolver will do the trick as a secondary, but eh... Marines will be marines I guess. Better this than them bitching up a storm.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Bronimin » 15 Jul 2017, 16:46

The rule really needs to be changed to have weapons carried around WITHOUT SAFETIES ON are an issue, but otherwise fine. This is beyond ridiculous that carrying your ruck in your hand is required. Allow MP's to check weapons that are carried for safeties, fine.

I once had an MP harrass me for carrying a shotgun as a SADAR spec and seriously told me to pull out the bazooka and carry that around instead. Why? BECAUSE THE SADAR HAS A SAFETY.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Challenger » 15 Jul 2017, 17:29

I love to strictly enforce the minor weapons violations law because I find that it has three good reasons for existing:

1. It removes some amount of powergaming that skews the balance and fun of the game. The devs put a lot of time into the game to balance weapons versus storage capacity. There's a reason M4s have only two UGLs each and why you can't stack attachments on the same gun, it's not so you come up with the smartass idea of hauling guns down in your hands. Similarly, having both a shotgun and M4 on you, SHOULD mean that you lose access to ammo, you can't just have your free extra gun and no downsides to come with it. Coming up with elaborate schemes to get around these restrictions like by holding your bag in your hand just means devs are gonna have to punish the honest players as a result, likely by decreasing the amount of UGLs per M4 to 1 for example.

2. It's really stupid, icly, to walk around with guns. Generally restricted things on the ship should be SECURE in some way, weapons should be stowed in a locker, or holstered, if you have a rifle in your hands then every time you want to do ANYTHING with your hands you're forced to leave the gun somewhere unsecured, unless you're wielding your weapon to fire, your hands are not a secure location for your weapon because some civilian can just run up to you, disarm you, and use your rifle against you (for example) where if you were a goody twoshoes they'd have to strip you which is much harder, to get at your weapons.

3. It generates some amount of RP. Basically the equivalent of a traffic stop since first time I do it I'm only gonna warn you, so we get to chat a bit and I can see if your character is angry or petulant or calm or eager to learn or loyal or whatever. Although, in keeping with the powergaming thing stated above, a lot of people take out ooc salt on me through their ic characters when this happens presumably because they only play to shoot stuff, so it helps me identify those wankers for later so I don't accidentally try to RP with them.

So regarding this "solution" aka a way to avoid the IC consequences of powergaming, there's one easy trick to defeating it if you're a goody two shoes who doesn't play to powergame and fuck with the devs' efforts constantly: ahelp the people who switch their guns with their backpacks, because when they do that they're taking a bag of ammo down first drop which is against the powergaming rules. Then if they switch back, the MP can come and take their weapon away as needed.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby MysteriousSpy » 15 Jul 2017, 18:34

So regarding this "solution" aka a way to avoid the IC consequences of powergaming, there's one easy trick to defeating it if you're a goody two shoes who doesn't play to powergame and fuck with the devs' efforts constantly: ahelp the people who switch their guns with their backpacks, because when they do that they're taking a bag of ammo down first drop which is against the powergaming rules. Then if they switch back, the MP can come and take their weapon away as needed.


This won't stop the problem (not that it's really a big problem in my eyes, carrying two guns is balanced out in my opinion by the fact they now have to carry two weapons worth of ammo and it makes inventory management a bit more clunky in a game where inventory management is already pretty damn clunky), because you can simply just leave your secondary gun in your prep room and come back and get it once briefing is over either way, since there is usually a 2-3 minute gap between mount up and launch. (And even if they miss the first launch they can just hop on the second launch with both weapons)
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Telegnats » 15 Jul 2017, 18:36

I am incredibly skeptical of all three claims you have just made, and the way you wholeheartedly support this by being insulted on behalf of the developers implies to me that you actively look for reasons to arrest marines.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Challenger » 15 Jul 2017, 19:05

carrying two guns is balanced out in my opinion by the fact they now have to carry two weapons worth of ammo and it makes inventory management a bit more clunky in a game where inventory management is already pretty damn clunky


You don't "have" to carry two weapons worth of ammo. If you're a regular M4 marine and you fully load a shotgun and keep it in your hands that's a huge advantage at no cost to what you would've done otherwise. There's no clunk involved with a weapon that you can drop at any time, and considering most people never run out of M4 ammo, they really dont see a downside to swapping out one or two of their twenty mags with boxes of buckshot shells that will last them the whole round.

And as I've already stated some people juggle extra M4s for the attachments, for example they'll have a red dot on one M4 and a rail light on the other, to keep the benefits of both, or take extra M4s for the extra UGLs in them, or just as a spare weapon in general.

I am incredibly skeptical of all three claims you have just made, and the way you wholeheartedly support this by being insulted on behalf of the developers implies to me that you actively look for reasons to arrest marines.


Come back with an actual reply and we can start talking
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Telegnats » 15 Jul 2017, 19:35

Ok

Challenger wrote:I love to strictly enforce the minor weapons violations law because I find that it has three good reasons for existing:

1. It removes some amount of powergaming that skews the balance and fun of the game. The devs put a lot of time into the game to balance weapons versus storage capacity. There's a reason M4s have only two UGLs each and why you can't stack attachments on the same gun, it's not so you come up with the smartass idea of hauling guns down in your hands. Similarly, having both a shotgun and M4 on you, SHOULD mean that you lose access to ammo, you can't just have your free extra gun and no downsides to come with it. Coming up with elaborate schemes to get around these restrictions like by holding your bag in your hand just means devs are gonna have to punish the honest players as a result, likely by decreasing the amount of UGLs per M4 to 1 for example.


Not only do you not have proof that it removes powergaming, you - a non developer - are trying tell me - a non developer what the developers were thinking when the developers were developing the game. What, am I just supposed to take your statements as irrefutable facts? This is entirely just you spouting your opinion on why something is and how great it is.

Challenger wrote: 2. It's really stupid, icly, to walk around with guns. Generally restricted things on the ship should be SECURE in some way, weapons should be stowed in a locker, or holstered, if you have a rifle in your hands then every time you want to do ANYTHING with your hands you're forced to leave the gun somewhere unsecured, unless you're wielding your weapon to fire, your hands are not a secure location for your weapon because some civilian can just run up to you, disarm you, and use your rifle against you (for example) where if you were a goody twoshoes they'd have to strip you which is much harder, to get at your weapons.


I don't think it's stupid, nor do I think there needs to be some law against it. What the hell did you think was happening for the past few years before this law was implemented, that people were gunning down doctors in the hallways and briefings were grief zones? And furthermore, any civilian that tries to disarm a marine probably doesn't have a good reason to do so - and given how strict the staff generally is about non-military getting firearms, it's practically an OOC issue. So why was this law even in place then? This is a classic example of fixing a problem that never existed, does not exist, and probably will never exist.

Challenger wrote: 3. It generates some amount of RP. Basically the equivalent of a traffic stop since first time I do it I'm only gonna warn you, so we get to chat a bit and I can see if your character is angry or petulant or calm or eager to learn or loyal or whatever. Although, in keeping with the powergaming thing stated above, a lot of people take out ooc salt on me through their ic characters when this happens presumably because they only play to shoot stuff, so it helps me identify those wankers for later so I don't accidentally try to RP with them.


No it fucking doesn't. I can personally say that the only 'RP' I get out of MPs (Not that I ever get satisfying RP out of MPs anyway) is them barking at people to put away their weapons and being smug cunts about it afterwards - neither have I have seen good RP come out of any interaction between an MP and a marine when the first interaction is an MP telling a marine to put a gun away. None, not a one, absolute zero. Don't try to tell me what i'm seeing is good RP, it's not.

Challenger wrote: So regarding this "solution" aka a way to avoid the IC consequences of powergaming, there's one easy trick to defeating it if you're a goody two shoes who doesn't play to powergame and fuck with the devs' efforts constantly: ahelp the people who switch their guns with their backpacks, because when they do that they're taking a bag of ammo down first drop which is against the powergaming rules. Then if they switch back, the MP can come and take their weapon away as needed.


Stop being fucking insulted on the staff's behalf to make yourself look like some righteous crusader bringing judgement to the unwashed masses. You're here defending a law that's created far more frustration in the player base than it's fixed, whose implementation has made me roll my eyes so many fucking times that i've started bringing an extra primary weapon so MPs can take it away and then leave me the fuck alone.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Challenger » 15 Jul 2017, 20:02

Telegnats wrote:Not only do you not have proof that it removes powergaming, you - a non developer - are trying tell me - a non developer what the developers were thinking when the developers were developing the game. What, am I just supposed to take your statements as irrefutable facts? This is entirely just you spouting your opinion on why something is and how great it is.


Carrying down extra bags or weapons in your hands is powergaming.

Telegnats wrote:I don't think it's stupid, nor do I think there needs to be some law against it. What the hell did you think was happening for the past few years before this law was implemented, that people were gunning down doctors in the hallways and briefings were grief zones? And furthermore, any civilian that tries to disarm a marine probably doesn't have a good reason to do so - and given how strict the staff generally is about non-military getting firearms, it's practically an OOC issue. So why was this law even in place then? This is a classic example of fixing a problem that never existed, does not exist, and probably will never exist.


Don't think you understood the argument. The "problem" being fixed is primarily one of immersion and roleplay. We're marines on a troop transport that has a very large contingent of non deploying marines and civilians onboard. Outside of cases where it falls within their duties (CTs shipping weapons), none of these non deployers are authorized weapons, so standard operating procedure revolves around keeping weapons separate from these non deployers as possible. So as I've explained, holstered weapons are secure, weapons left in locked rooms like prep or cargo are secure, but weapons being held in someone's hands are one disarm or shove away from falling into enemy hands.

Try to think about this IN CHARACTER: if you were in command of a vessel where half the crew isn't allowed weapons, why would you let marines leave their weapons around in easy reach?

Or here's an analogy if that doesn't work: you know how on other servers, security is laughed at when they run around with batons, because then anyone can easily disarm and prod them? This is the exact same situation we're facing with marines running around with lethal weapons. The only reason to avoid sane procedure involving stowing your weapon is if you're metagaming and using the knowledge of the fact that CM doesn't usually have traitors on the Almayer.

Telegnats wrote:No it fucking doesn't. I can personally say that the only 'RP' I get out of MPs (Not that I ever get satisfying RP out of MPs anyway) is them barking at people to put away their weapons and being smug cunts about it afterwards - neither have I have seen good RP come out of any interaction between an MP and a marine when the first interaction is an MP telling a marine to put a gun away. None, not a one, absolute zero. Don't try to tell me what i'm seeing is good RP, it's not.

Stop being fucking insulted on the staff's behalf to make yourself look like some righteous crusader bringing judgement to the unwashed masses. You're here defending a law that's created far more frustration in the player base than it's fixed, whose implementation has made me roll my eyes so many fucking times that i've started bringing an extra primary weapon so MPs can take it away and then leave me the fuck alone.


The playerbase is frustrated with a law telling them to behave like marines because they don't want to behave like marines. More at 11.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Tidomann » 15 Jul 2017, 20:30

Please start a new thread about whether two weapons is power gaming or not.

All this is doing right now is reinforcing that MPs hate this trick.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Telegnats » 15 Jul 2017, 20:50

Challenger wrote:Carrying down extra bags or weapons in your hands is powergaming.

Strangely enough it feel that this law doesn't fix any of the problems it says it fixes though. Since this law's implementation I haven't seen anything with regards to this change. People still carry around their weapons how they always have. The MPs arrest one or two people every now and then and the rest of the time don't look like they give a shit.

Challenger wrote:Don't think you understood the argument. The "problem" being fixed is primarily one of immersion and roleplay. We're marines on a troop transport that has a very large contingent of non deploying marines and civilians onboard. Outside of cases where it falls within their duties (CTs shipping weapons), none of these non deployers are authorized weapons, so standard operating procedure revolves around keeping weapons separate from these non deployers as possible. So as I've explained, holstered weapons are secure, weapons left in locked rooms like prep or cargo are secure,


But I don't. The problem didn't exist - stop trying to make this into a fucking problem for this law to fix. In all of my fucking years playing this server I have never felt less immersed than having an arbitrary restriction placed on me, the sole purpose of which is to "Stop powergaming". Have you felt more immersed by telling someone to put their gun away? Has anyone felt more immersed by this? Has any good roleplay ever come from this law? From who? The people who don't care about RP? They didn't care anyway. The people like me who RP but don't put it above gameplay? No, not particularly. No one I've spoken to has ever felt this way about it. Who then? Who?

Challenger wrote:being held in someone's hands are one disarm or shove away from falling into enemy hands.

What fucking enemies? Like you said it's a military transport. Everyone there is comfortable around guns. Most of them might not be able to use them, but no one is going to disarm marines and start shooting people up without being banned for griefing.

Challenger wrote:Try to think about this IN CHARACTER: if you were in command of a vessel where half the crew isn't allowed weapons, why would you let marines leave their weapons around in easy reach?

If I were a commander on an actual space ship i'd probably first trust my non-military crew to not just go around grabbing weapons they're not supposed to. Secondly i'd trust my marines to know how to use their firearms. If i'm stupid for thinking that, then you're not roleplaying, you're playing SS13.

Challenger wrote:Or here's an analogy if that doesn't work: you know how on other servers, security is laughed at when they run around with batons, because then anyone can easily disarm and prod them? This is the exact same situation we're facing with marines running around with lethal weapons. The only reason to avoid sane procedure involving stowing your weapon is if you're metagaming and using the knowledge of the fact that CM doesn't usually have traitors on the Almayer.

This isn't Hippie. No one is greytiding without admins intervening. And how the fuck is it metagaming to understand that the personnel of a space-faring military vessel aren't out to murder people on the ship?
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Philby0 » 15 Jul 2017, 21:53

Challenger wrote:I love to strictly enforce the minor weapons violations law.

I don't even understand that. The job of the military police is to make sure the USS Almayer is safe.

And I'm not saying let them run around with it. Explain to the marine the thing about the bag, if they are one of the classes that can't do this, keep the weapon until they get out of the req line, order them to keep it at their feet during briefing, and escort them to the hangar once the briefing is done. This takes much less time than jailing them.

I saw a MP arrest a marine for that, he just confiscated the weapon and sent him to fight anyway. Basically, sending him underequipped in hostile territory was the punishment for having two guns.
Confiscating the weapon should be for serious cases, when it deserves jail, like aiming the weapon at people aboard or being particularly careless with it.

This shouldn't even be a problem.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Challenger » 15 Jul 2017, 22:23

Telegnats wrote: Have you felt more immersed by telling someone to put their gun away? Has anyone felt more immersed by this? Has any good roleplay ever come from this law? From who? The people who don't care about RP? They didn't care anyway. The people like me who RP but don't put it above gameplay? No, not particularly. No one I've spoken to has ever felt this way about it. Who then? Who?


A ship full of marines not waving their weapons around is more immersive, yeah.

Telegnats wrote:What fucking enemies? Like you said it's a military transport. Everyone there is comfortable around guns. Most of them might not be able to use them, but no one is going to disarm marines and start shooting people up without being banned for griefing.

If I were a commander on an actual space ship i'd probably first trust my non-military crew to not just go around grabbing weapons they're not supposed to. Secondly i'd trust my marines to know how to use their firearms.


You don't just "trust" your non-military crew to not go around grabbing weapons that careless marines leave on the floor and dangle by their barrels, you actively secure them. With this kind of attitude you might as well give everyone all-access and "trust" they won't abuse it.

No one's being asked to actively switch the safeties on their weapon, or emote cleaning your barrel in prep or something. You just have to not actively powergame to fuck to the point where you can't even hold the spaghetti rifles spilling out of your pockets.

I don't even understand that. The job of the military police is to make sure the USS Almayer is safe.


That's not their job at all. MPs duties are to enforce Marine Law without question even to the detriment of the mission. Sure, if the USS Almayer gets boarded, MPs are gonna be using lethals to repel the attack, but only on code blue/red, which is when EVERYONE is suposed to be using lethals to repel the attack. Otherwise they enforce the law as always.

Regarding your suggestions:

- The bag thing is an ooc issue of powergaming since they're taking an extra bag of supplies down. Stop encouraging this.
- You have better things to do than hold marines' extra weapons for them, like tossing the weapon into the confiscation room since the marine apparently can't secure it.
- Leaving a weapon on the floor is even worse than having the marine hold it, that shit's just blatantly unsecured. You should be tossing weapons on the floor into a secure area, like the MP rooms or requisitions.
- Escorting the marine still means they're breaking the law, except now you're also breaking the law (neglect of duty) by not preventing their lawbreak, which violates server MP rules.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby WinterClould » 16 Jul 2017, 01:00

I carry a Rifle and a shotgun into the fight with me almost every round I'm a standard. Never done the bag trick only because taking an ammo belt filled with 10 rounds of buckshot and 4 M41 mags, plus two more mags in my pockets has always been enough for me. If I start running low I always have polite and kind (and always dead) marines around me ready and willing to spare me some ammo. I don't have any problem with marines doing the bag trick because I don't personally think its any harm to balance. I'm also really liking the trick because clearly MP's really do hate it.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby MrJJJ » 16 Jul 2017, 03:23

Challenger wrote:
- The bag thing is an ooc issue of powergaming since they're taking an extra bag of supplies down. Stop encouraging this.

Carrying down extra bags or weapons in your hands is powergaming.

Okay please tell me how is carrying a extra weapon or a bag powergaming? A marine can carry a shotgun in his back and a rifle in his suit armor for all he wants, nobody has ever been pmed about this, and its been confirmed that you can take a spare powerpack down the ground and leave at FOB and such, where are you getting this from?

Challenger wrote:Don't think you understood the argument. The "problem" being fixed is primarily one of immersion and roleplay. We're marines on a troop transport that has a very large contingent of non deploying marines and civilians onboard. Outside of cases where it falls within their duties (CTs shipping weapons), none of these non deployers are authorized weapons, so standard operating procedure revolves around keeping weapons separate from these non deployers as possible. So as I've explained, holstered weapons are secure, weapons left in locked rooms like prep or cargo are secure, but weapons being held in someone's hands are one disarm or shove away from falling into enemy hands.

What kind of a fucking civilian like a doctor would under any mind attack a marine to steal his gun? how is he considered a enemy? why would a CT do it, who are even more trustworthy with the marines? seriously you keep making it sound like marines are onboard a UPP vessel, which they are not.
Challenger wrote:
Try to think about this IN CHARACTER: if you were in command of a vessel where half the crew isn't allowed weapons, why would you let marines leave their weapons around in easy reach?

Or here's an analogy if that doesn't work: you know how on other servers, security is laughed at when they run around with batons, because then anyone can easily disarm and prod them? This is the exact same situation we're facing with marines running around with lethal weapons. The only reason to avoid sane procedure involving stowing your weapon is if you're metagaming and using the knowledge of the fact that CM doesn't usually have traitors on the Almayer.

Okay for the first thing: About most of the crew is sorta marines, i know for sure CT's are considered marines and they are too busy sorting through cargo, Doctors would probably not even wanna bother getting a weapon, as they have no idea let alone how to fire it and they just wanna do their jobs, and MT's generally are too busy being bored and making stuff and then being asked to repair stuff that getting into trouble with MP's is the last thing they do or even want to do.

For the second: You can't compare a military server where everyone is given guns, then forced to sit next to each other and have "briefing" and realize the fact they are going to do this teamwork way, not solo way, MP's here while still laughed if they have it out, nobody laughs at marines for having their guns out, ALL of them are ARMED, only very few roles are not armed with some sort of weaponry, a marine disarming another marine of a gun is essentially being a ass to the other marine, not something super important, and how the hell would ANYONE think there is going to be a TRAITOR or a SPY on board the freaking Almayer? military generally doesn't assume their soldiers are UPP spies or CLF sympathizers, they kinda need evidence for that.

Nobody here, even ICly benefits from having a gun as a role that shouldn't have it, what CAN you do with it that's not rule breaking?

Challenger wrote:The playerbase is frustrated with a law telling them to behave like marines because they don't want to behave like marines. More at 11.

Ah yes the law that some MP's seem to want to twist around as much as possible to be asses to marines for no real good reason, its so actually noticeable and common even Feweh has already noticed.

Challenger wrote:2. It's really stupid, icly, to walk around with guns. Generally restricted things on the ship should be SECURE in some way, weapons should be stowed in a locker, or holstered, if you have a rifle in your hands then every time you want to do ANYTHING with your hands you're forced to leave the gun somewhere unsecured, unless you're wielding your weapon to fire, your hands are not a secure location for your weapon because some civilian can just run up to you, disarm you, and use your rifle against you (for example) where if you were a goody twoshoes they'd have to strip you which is much harder, to get at your weapons.

Again what kind of a fucking civilian would just walk up to a marine, the marine that has either come to the colony or was assigned with them on the ship and just fucking start disarming them? it serves them nothing good, and they would just get shot at either by marine they failed to disarm or everyone else, the ship is probably the securest place marines know of.

Challenger wrote:So regarding this "solution" aka a way to avoid the IC consequences of powergaming, there's one easy trick to defeating it if you're a goody two shoes who doesn't play to powergame and fuck with the devs' efforts constantly: ahelp the people who switch their guns with their backpacks, because when they do that they're taking a bag of ammo down first drop which is against the powergaming rules. Then if they switch back, the MP can come and take their weapon away as needed.

ITS.NOT.POWERGAMING

By this logic, all marines should be banned for powergaming, because we all spawn with a backpack, and i love generally stuffing it with a lot of ammo, the belt has about 6 slots if i remember right, while the backpack can store 14 magazines, combine it with the belt, thats 20 magazines, combine it with pocket slots, armor slots and a helmet slot, thats 25 magazines, get a webbing and thats 28 magazines, quite insane don't you think?

Its not uncommon for someone to stuff a backpack full of buckshot, leave it at planet and constantly come back to it to get more spare ammo and stuff it in their belt for example.

Challenger wrote:1. It removes some amount of powergaming that skews the balance and fun of the game. The devs put a lot of time into the game to balance weapons versus storage capacity. There's a reason M4s have only two UGLs each and why you can't stack attachments on the same gun, it's not so you come up with the smartass idea of hauling guns down in your hands. Similarly, having both a shotgun and M4 on you, SHOULD mean that you lose access to ammo, you can't just have your free extra gun and no downsides to come with it. Coming up with elaborate schemes to get around these restrictions like by holding your bag in your hand just means devs are gonna have to punish the honest players as a result, likely by decreasing the amount of UGLs per M4 to 1 for example.

You can't stack UGL's because you can't put them in your backpack, because people freaking abused it and put 7 UGL's in their backpacks and then had 16 shots of explosive stunning grenades to fire off, thats about as much as a GL specs, don't try to speak for changes you weren't there before neither you understand.

Also that is some stupid logic right there "To carry a extra gun you should lose access to ammo and have basically nothing to reload with!" no you shouldn't, you either lose a belt or a backpack, which just limits your ammo capacity because you will always have 5 slots at best for ammo and other things, its all about preference, backpack is STILL a good way to send supplies with alot of ammo, but it doesn't much matter how much ammo you have when you need a hell lot more than just ammo to win.

So basically in short...
Telegnats wrote:Not only do you not have proof that it removes powergaming, you - a non developer - are trying tell me - a non developer what the developers were thinking when the developers were developing the game. What, am I just supposed to take your statements as irrefutable facts? This is entirely just you spouting your opinion on why something is and how great it is.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Philby0 » 16 Jul 2017, 09:35

Challenger wrote:- The bag thing is an ooc issue of powergaming since they're taking an extra bag of supplies down. Stop encouraging this.
- You have better things to do than hold marines' extra weapons for them, like tossing the weapon into the confiscation room since the marine apparently can't secure it.
- Leaving a weapon on the floor is even worse than having the marine hold it, that shit's just blatantly unsecured. You should be tossing weapons on the floor into a secure area, like the MP rooms or requisitions.
- Escorting the marine still means they're breaking the law, except now you're also breaking the law (neglect of duty) by not preventing their lawbreak, which violates server MP rules.



- Taking your bag in your hand to carry the weapon on a secure slot is everything but OOC, and certainly not powergaming, having too much equipment at the risk of being encumbered is something that happens in real life, and the downside in combat is present. Try to ahelp for powergaming everytime someone does it, see what happens.

- You have no other things to do than making sure the law is respected and marines are as efficient as possible, that's what a military police does.

- The weapon on the floor applies to the briefing, when the civilians aren't around and the marines are surrounded by other armed marines who don't care about a weapon on the floor, it avoids accidental discharge as well.

- Escorting by taking their weapon, putting it in your own slot, and giving it back to them on the dropship. No one runs around with weapons, and going from briefing to hangar is much faster than carrying someone from briefing to the brig and jailing them.

Also, because of the bag trick, this is only something you could have to do with certain engineers who have a particular loadout.
But in truth these aren't real suggestions that I advise MPs to follow, these are things you can do if you want to have the law be respected, the marines deployed efficiently.
One thing though, maybe we could tell them to unload the weapons in certain situations ? For example, would you be okay with a gun at the feet of a marine in briefing if it's unloaded ?

I feel the minor weapon violation law needs to be clearer on this.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Tidomann » 16 Jul 2017, 15:02

What would be power-gaming is to put a pistol on your belt, and having your belt and backpack in your hands. Awwwww yea.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Telegnats » 16 Jul 2017, 18:14

Challenger wrote:A ship full of marines not waving their weapons around is more immersive, yeah.

If you have such attention to detail then you shouldn't be playing a 2d spacemans game built off an atmos simulator.


Challenger wrote:You don't just "trust" your non-military crew to not go around grabbing weapons that careless marines leave on the floor and dangle by their barrels, you actively secure them. With this kind of attitude you might as well give everyone all-access and "trust" they won't abuse it.

No one's being asked to actively switch the safeties on their weapon, or emote cleaning your barrel in prep or something. You just have to not actively powergame to fuck to the point where you can't even hold the spaghetti rifles spilling out of your pockets.


Giving all-access to everyone and letting marines hold their weapons is not the same situation and we both know it, I can't wrap my head around that spaghetti comment so I assume it's just some smartass remark with no purpose. Furthermore, ownerless weapons are distinctly not the same as weapons being held in the hand. But if you do consider this equal, you should start arresting people for littering.

As for the powergaming, it's obvious by the responses given by Philby0 and MrJJJ that not everyone agrees that it's powergaming. This is boiling down into pure opinion.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Voldirs » 16 Jul 2017, 18:47

Even IRL, holding firearm by its frame is so common and safe. Common safety measures include keeping it unloaded if you are not expected to use it soon and not aiming at your own folks. Keeping weapon unloaded in CM is rather stupid because you gonna waste precious inventory slot for that.

Marines are not pussies.

Also, taking more equipment on the ground isnt powergaming. From RP point taking more ammo, flares, meds, explosives and some other useful shit wil decide whether you or your folks return back alive and in one piece or not. Game-wise its the absolutely the same.
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby FelixG » 17 Jul 2017, 07:48

How about using alt clicking?
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby Tidomann » 17 Jul 2017, 11:12

FelixG wrote:How about using alt clicking?


90% of mps don't even care if the safety is on anymore. It's holster or bust. It doesn't explicitly talk about weapon safety in Marine law so MPs don't venomously enforce it.

This includes walking around with weapons un-holstered or discharging weapons during non-emergencies.


Holstering on the other hand...
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Re: One simple trick, MPs HATE HIM!

Postby StephenNelson » 17 Jul 2017, 20:56

I really dislike MPs who enforce this rule, however how often is this even an issue? I almost always open carry a shotgun when I deploy and I have only been stopped once. (I just threw the shotgun in a locker and grabbed it when the MP went away.)

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