Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

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Zilenan91
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Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Zilenan91 » 16 Sep 2017, 22:31

Something needs to be done about carriers right now. They're so bad. Not only are they not very effective and limited on the Queen actually laying eggs to be able to do what they're supposed to do, but the Drone evolution takes 500 ticks so what that means is that if you can't get a slot between all the Hunters who evolved, you're going to be a Young Carrier too late into the round to actually matter because the marines have been dropped for 15 minutes. That's not even talking about how bad their actual statistics are. They're extremely fragile, slow, do next to no damage, have a shit tackle chance, their sprite is fucking giant, and when they throw huggers they're stunned for a good 4 or 5 seconds so it's rare that when you throw them that they actually attach to a marine.

Carriers need something to be not the worst caste in the game. If drones evolved faster so carriers were more relevant earlier or if they could turn bodies into eggs or if they just had generally better statistics or anything at all this might be a caste that someone would think about being, but at the moment it's just so terrible it's not even worth it. What are your thoughts on carriers and how to improve them?

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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Nyeshivuu » 17 Sep 2017, 03:16

Even though i am biased toward marines, carriers are shit. They should make it to where the facehuggers aren't stunned for 5 seconds and better statistics because they are easy pickings as a standard.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Stripetail » 17 Sep 2017, 04:08

If a carrier stays away from the frontline and comes in after as the queen's roared, throws their load of huggers you're nearly guaranteed as many infections. Not to mention you could drop your huggers for drones before the queen's screech, then let the drones run up with the fight and hug however many marines they can.

I think the caste could probably do with some buffs, but the main problem with it is that most people just don't play it as a support caste.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Renomaki » 17 Sep 2017, 11:35

To be honest, balancing the carrier is difficult...

Back when hugger combat was a thing, carriers were pretty dangerous what with their ability to toss huggers at you and stun you from range, leaving you helpless as aliens either dragged you to a nest or ripped you apart. Then during the hugger combat removal tests, carriers were OP AS FUCK, with huggers that behaved more like HOMING MISSLES that you couldn't avoid, resulting in dozens upon dozens of infected marines every round. It got so bad that they had to nerf them into the state they currently are now.

Nowadays, they aren't so much a combat-caste as a support caste, a mobile egg cluster that can deploy huggers wherever they are needed and keep them refreshed throughout. They might get a good shot here and there and get a ranged infection, but most of the time they simply supply drones, hivelords and queens with huggers that are ready to use in but a few seconds instead of having to rely on eggs that take several minutes to grow and aren't always in good places. Sometimes you need huggers and you need em now, and that is where carriers come in.

I think due to changes, carriers just need to adapt to the times and adjust their tactics accordingly. Marines do it, so can xenos.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Mook476 » 17 Sep 2017, 12:53

Carriers back in the days could hold off an entire marine force due to their instant hugging. I think the carrier is at a decent stand point right now as it's more of a support caste. I've seen people play carrier competently where they'll sit back, and hug anybody that's being captured or when there's an opening in the front lines. I can see the 4-5 second wait for the hugger to actually move though being quite the issue.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Tidomann » 17 Sep 2017, 13:00

If carriers could choose whether to store huggers permanently (as it currently is and throw them) vs storing them temporarily in their hands (as it is when picking when up when holding 6 huggers already) would really help them I think.

That way you can slam marines who get too close to you without the large delay.

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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by HKO2006 » 17 Sep 2017, 13:31

The lack of ability of slapping hugger made it worse than just let Queen and Drone take the huggers and use them for a pretty much guaranteed capture, especially when alien being defensive.
Carriers is only useful during alien offensive now, when far away from eggs, but if Queen is diligent and put eggs near front and wait a bit, there is little to no use of a Carrier.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Zilenan91 » 17 Sep 2017, 20:41

Reduced the Queen's plasma cost of laying eggs from 500 to 400.
Increased Carrier's max number of facehuggers carried from 6 to 8.
Decreased Carrier's delay between throwing facehuggers.

APC destroyed mission accomplished

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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Troy Kent » 18 Sep 2017, 07:53

Mission failed, we'll nerf 'em next time.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Hulkamania » 18 Sep 2017, 14:35

Zilenan91 wrote:
17 Sep 2017, 20:41
Reduced the Queen's plasma cost of laying eggs from 500 to 400.
Increased Carrier's max number of facehuggers carried from 6 to 8.
Decreased Carrier's delay between throwing facehuggers.

APC destroyed mission accomplished
But how do they actually play now? Do they feel any better?

I haven't played a xeno game and haven't ran into any carriers on the marine side of things, but I'd imagine they aren't THAT much better off.

Better than before but they still share the problem of being a passive alien caste.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by JDresdin » 18 Sep 2017, 16:35

If you lowered the stun from thrown huggers to 1 second and just made throwing them have a large cooldown, (15-30 seconds) as well as limiting carried huggers to 3-3-4-5 respectively, carriers could become viable again. Right now they really are trash.

/kinda miss the hilariously OP carriers during that old hugger combat test.

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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by GoliathTheDespoiler » 19 Sep 2017, 09:43

Hi,

I'm an ex-carrier main who used to play her during the Hugger Combat crisis, and I still sorta play her now, and this is what I have to say:

Carrier is, in her current state, weak, but still very viable.

Here's my reasoning:

Carriers are extremely effective at gauranteeing infections, especially near the frontlines on the zeno offensive (which it ALWAYS is) as well as providing support as a pseudo-drone. Honestly, carriers do a drone's supporting job better provided they have access to nests.

Carriers get:

- weeds
- drone clas pheros
- EIGHT. HUGGERS.

So they make a good support caste, definitely. But there's some major issues I have with her:
- Upgrade and evo times are abysmally long. Almost as long as the queen.
- Terrible speed and durability (young runner levels, which is bad)
- Shitty upgrades
- Terrible combat potential
- Not much to do with a bad queen or no queen.

It makes sense that combat wise, a carrier sucks, because its not meant to fight, it meant to be a xeno-'doctor' who leaves a crab-shaped lollipop with all the good boys and girls who are being dragged back for oral sex with aliens. However, this also makes the carrier really fucking boring if the queen sucks, noone's capturing, or there's no eggs. It used to be that if noone was capturing humans, the carrier could just do it itself. While its still possible now, it's like performing brain surgery with no eyes or arms.

Due to carriers dependence on teammates, it makes it nigh impossible to play her 'properly' since lets face it, we all suck at teamwork.

Don't get me wrong, the feeling of infecting someone is still as satisfying as ever, it only sucks that its so dependent on actual good teammates.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Mono » 19 Sep 2017, 13:12

As far as upgrades go, the carrier should probably get a reduction in hugger stun time as it upgrades. Would make it feel like it had a proper increase in how dangerous it was as it upgraded like the other t2s.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Crab_Spider » 19 Sep 2017, 14:49

Mono wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 13:12
As far as upgrades go, the carrier should probably get a reduction in hugger stun time as it upgrades. Would make it feel like it had a proper increase in how dangerous it was as it upgraded like the other t2s.
I can get behind that, honestly.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Nyeshivuu » 19 Sep 2017, 15:16

I legit had a dream that carriers were buffed and i was playing as one, i infected every marine.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by HKO2006 » 19 Sep 2017, 20:10

Carriers get a new ability: "Place Trap". For 200 plasma you can place a resin hole on weeds. This hole can store a facehugger, just like an egg, and lets the facehugger ambush humans.

Hmm, interesting.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Nyeshivuu » 20 Sep 2017, 20:05

That is actually kinda interesting, it would be cool if marines could set up traps like snares or bear traps. That would be fun.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by GoliathTheDespoiler » 20 Sep 2017, 20:12

Nyeshivuu wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 20:05
That is actually kinda interesting, it would be cool if marines could set up traps like snares or bear traps. That would be fun.
It wouldn't make much sense, since marines don't know they're fighting a melee intensive enemy (the ayys). The Claymore mines make sense, as they are designed to work on humans as well.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Crab_Spider » 20 Sep 2017, 21:09

The resin hole is unavoidable. Basically the hugger will jump out to you even if you destroy the hole.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by GoliathTheDespoiler » 21 Sep 2017, 08:38

Crab_Spider wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 21:09
The resin hole is unavoidable. Basically the hugger will jump out to you even if you destroy the hole.
From what I've seen (one three-hour round as carrier, BARELY GOT ELITE.) holes can be shot with harm intent and aiming at the tile, like a wall. Flamers are perfect for clearing them however since they kill the hole and the hugger.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by XenocidalEnragement » 21 Sep 2017, 08:51

Seconding for alien/human-crafted pungi traps.

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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by Tidomann » 21 Sep 2017, 11:32

XenocidalEnragement wrote:
21 Sep 2017, 08:51
Seconding for alien/human-crafted pungi traps.
Predators should be able to, although they already do get the snare. More trapping mechanics would be interesting.

Imagine a trap that functioned like a wall. Lead a mark into an area, he springs the trap, and a wall would be constructed behind him, trapping it's prey into an area or cutting it off from others or retreat... DAMN I really want this now.

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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by HKO2006 » 21 Sep 2017, 11:48

I think the holes are worse than the good old eggs. As a standard, I just click the hole (regardless of intent), hugger pop out, one more click. I also saw a Spec just walk over the hole, then melee the hugger. Eggs at least take more bullets and its hugger jumps when triggered.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by GoliathTheDespoiler » 21 Sep 2017, 16:16

HKO2006 wrote:
21 Sep 2017, 11:48
I think the holes are worse than the good old eggs. As a standard, I just click the hole (regardless of intent), hugger pop out, one more click. I also saw a Spec just walk over the hole, then melee the hugger. Eggs at least take more bullets and its hugger jumps when triggered.
True, but you can hide holes under corpses or use them as temporary replenishible eggs for teammates. Place a few along the way to a nesting area and you'll get fellow xenos thanking you. They're also really hard to see.
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Re: Carriers are the worst caste in the game right now

Post by spicemoron » 22 Sep 2017, 04:12

Tidomann wrote:
21 Sep 2017, 11:32

Imagine a trap that functioned like a wall. Lead a mark into an area, he springs the trap, and a wall would be constructed behind him, trapping it's prey into an area or cutting it off from others or retreat... DAMN I really want this now.
I'm assuming this servers lets you attach signallers to door wires, so could do it that way,

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