NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Damous » 20 Oct 2017, 23:12

Suicide Launch to the almayer with 6 xenos against 80 people is best.

i just love the salt "b-but we could won (5 hours round)".

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Brokenchair » 21 Oct 2017, 18:29

Personally I don't play queen just because you pretty much are required to be able to command like 20-30+ people at a time. I don't like to lead.

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Incomptinence » 21 Oct 2017, 23:38

Oh the commanding people thing, don't worry about it. They won't listen anyway and you are far too slow and busy to watch them and police them into doing so.

Your average xeno can't even find their way to you when ordered to gather on your arrow indicated location.

You should give the orders anyway because the 4-5 near you who listen are your elite squad due to mastering basic communication.

Said it to drones a few times but if you can talk and shit out an egg every time your plasma gets full you are overqualified. Good screeching is a nice bonus but you will usually only have 1-2 aliens capitalising it even if you do it right, even with announcing you are going to do it etc.
Last edited by Incomptinence on 22 Oct 2017, 17:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by GoliathTheDespoiler » 22 Oct 2017, 08:12

Incomptinence wrote:
21 Oct 2017, 23:38
Oh the commanding people thing, don't worry about it. They won't listen anyway and you are far too slow and busy to watch them and police them into doing so.

You average xeno can't even find their way to you when ordered to gather on your arrow indicated location.

You should give the orders anyway because the 4-5 near you who listen are your elite squad due to mastering basic communication.

Said it to drones a few times but if you can talk and shit out an egg every time your plasma gets full you are overqualified. Good screeching is a nice bonus but you will usually only have 1-2 aliens capitalising it even if you do it right, even with announcing you are going to do it etc.
I just realised how much your username checks out. I don't even mean that negatively, you're describing incompitence with the name incomptinence.

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Drawsstuff » 23 Oct 2017, 11:48

Maybe to problem is people feel under prepared. On any other sever, if you want to do a major job but not fuck up the round, you usually pick an assistant and shadow the person. Colonial Marines is anything but "another server" which makes this difficult. Maybe something similar could be implemented or tested, even for a short time.

I don't know much about the Alien franchise even though I'm a fan (I'm a massive fucking wuss, the stereotypical easily scared girl who hates horror movies), but what I do know that it's common among insect hives headed by queens for there to be "under-queens" who shadow their mothers for a while before going off and making their own hives with their own brood. Perhaps something like that could be toyed with, the idea of a job that teaches you the basic duties while also being functionally terrible compared to other castes to prevent essentially a 2nd queen in the hive. It would be advantageous to training people. Of course, such a thing is just a really simple idea, but I'd like to see what the rest of you think and in what way would it function.

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by jalen earl » 23 Oct 2017, 22:27

Generally because you get criticised heavily if you win or lose. Had a round yesterday where the second queen was a first timer. Held off about 25 marines with 3 others and brought the colony up to 17. Yet people still laid into them for cowering in the caves. And when they screwed up the shuttle much salty rage ensued.

Played it twice i usually pass as i have no idea how long the round will go. Sometimes lowpop goes for 3+ and dont want to leave it in a lurch if i have to leave.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by jalen earl » 23 Oct 2017, 22:31

Also getting the blame for retards trying to solo the enemy even though you order them to fall back or stay hidden is fucking painful
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Kris P Kreme » 29 Oct 2017, 21:45

Personally i dont play queen cause i dont wanna get nuked by a squad of marines who all happen to have grenades while im body blocked by half the hive

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Symbiosis » 30 Oct 2017, 08:37

Kris P Kreme wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 21:45
Personally i dont play queen cause i dont wanna get nuked by a squad of marines who all happen to have grenades while im body blocked by half the hive
Git guud, then. Marines have 37 grenades unless it's high pop... then it's 52. With Frenzy and screech you're pretty much invincible.

Main thing is to recognize the SADAR and B18. Those are the only two Marines that stand between you and total domination.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by GoliathTheDespoiler » 30 Oct 2017, 17:21

Symbiosis wrote:
30 Oct 2017, 08:37
Git guud, then. Marines have 37 grenades unless it's high pop... then it's 52. With Frenzy and screech you're pretty much invincible.

Main thing is to recognize the SADAR and B18. Those are the only two Marines that stand between you and total domination.
Even watching for the SADAR can be unnecessary, they like to waste rockets on tier 1s.

Also if the rocket isn't AP, you can just laugh it and the stun off.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Kris P Kreme » 30 Oct 2017, 19:29

Symbiosis wrote:
30 Oct 2017, 08:37
Git guud, then. Marines have 37 grenades unless it's high pop... then it's 52. With Frenzy and screech you're pretty much invincible.

Main thing is to recognize the SADAR and B18. Those are the only two Marines that stand between you and total domination.
Its usually your own xenos that get you killed, due to not following orders or body blocking you because they dont know how harm int works

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Damarik » 19 Nov 2017, 02:51

As someone who also views themselves as a Queen Player (when I'm not Ancient Drone/Sentinel), I've seen my fair share of leadership rounds, and I have to say that what's being said here is pretty spot on.

There were many times I was criticized for my play-style, despite probably being one of the few people who follows traditional hive practice (AKA: the Queen is the centerpiece of the Hive. She doesn't leave the nest unless absolutely necessary). Because of that style, I've achieved Ancient Queen twice, and have led more than one successful victory against the Marines on Red and 624.

Granted, I've also had my misery rounds where I screwed up royally, but hey...you take the good with the bad and keep learning.

Problem is: playing the Queen is a crapshoot. It's not just dependent on your own skills as a leader and player in general, but the skills of all the other Ayys as a whole. You can concoct brilliant plans and have your hive set them into motion, but if you've got a nest full of incompetent ayys, or worse: salty-respawrines...then you're screwed anyway. And despite that: people will still say it's your fault. Even on a Xeno Major, you still don't win...because somewhere, someone who died is calling you out on your actions, claiming their death as your responsibility - whether or not it actually way.

The salt flows heavy in CM. Between not wanting to get reprimanded/Xeno-bant for making bad calls/actions and not wanting to put up with other people crying waves of hateful saline at you...it's no wonder people don't want to Queen.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Reuben Owen » 19 Nov 2017, 08:12

also whenever you go queen and all you want to do is flank the marines to attack them easier, you have to yell/repeat yourself for 2+ minutes just to get 1 runner to follow you

I find individual xenos are more likely to listen to you when you don't you hivespeak and talk to them directly
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Forst » 25 Nov 2017, 22:26

There was one round that springs to mind, we were on LV and ordered to not leave the mines. Slashing was turned off and alium chat was filled to the brim with complaints.

We held in the caves for about a half hour after the fog, and then flanked LZ1 and won the round. There were many, many apologies on DS1 on the ride to the ship, but for the first hour of the game it was literally everyone complaining.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Challenger » 25 Nov 2017, 23:53

I wasn't part of that round but someone retold it to me. Essentially what they said was, "If I'd known that it was fitchace (Bill Carson) playing the queen I wouldn't have complained at all, but I thought it was 'the usual' type of queen".

The rules demand that the 30-50 actual humans playing on the alien side have to absolutely obey every one of the Queen's commands. And the Queen isn't whitelisted. Anyone can just go and jump in. First day on the server? Brazilian and have no idea how to speak english? Only play for really weird lorebreaking survivor RP (think of how excrutiatingly long it took misterjopper to get queen banned)? Want to affect, extend, and ruin the round in stupid ways for your own enjoyment? Go ahead, just set Alien Queen to Yes and ready up. Add to that inexperience, being bad at strategy despite trying, the human behind the screen getting being tired or such, etc., and FINALLY - even if Queens were played to a consistent standard - when they die, which happens often, a drone has to replace them. And on the BEST day, you have around 10 drones + larva to choose from, where at roundstart you'd have had 150 people queuing up. That's 90% of eligible players eliminated from contention entirely, usually it's 97-99% - only one or two drones to choose from. These numbers are the reason I'd never complain about a non-roundstart queen, they pretty much always get "forced" into the role and you can't really demand any standard from someone who's borderline unwilling to take on the responsibility anyway.

So with all this in mind, let's say you're playing the usual alien, you've already waited 50 minutes before getting any real action going on against the marines, then right when the brunt of the action is about to hit, the queen suddenly orders that slashing is going to be disabled for the next couple of dozen minutes.

Is your first thought going to be,

"Wow, what an exciting strategic development from this Queen player who I know is acting in my team's general interest with a base level of strategic competence and roleplay, whether we win or lose as a result, I am sure this will be an enjoyable experience."

or

"Fucking hell, another BR griefing queen who's pulling stupid shit because they probably just don't care about the alien team, or want to try some """"""roleplay"""""" involving peace treaties with the marines or some equally inane thing that keeps most alien players out of the game"

Being real, unless you've had really good luck with your queens, you've been burned by enough assholes taking the role that you're just gonna whine and complain about the order in the hopes that they relent. It's not at all common that you're going to get genuine, good-spirited, useful leadership from your team's leader. Often you can kind of separate wheat from chaff as a standard xeno by gauging the Queen's communication skills - competent ones will use Hive Orders and Word of the Queen and communicate clearly - but plenty of people can talk big game without walking the walk.

I think there's a lot of ways to solve this problem, some good some bad - stuff like better wiki and strategy guides for prospective queens, better leadership features for them in-game, maybe some form of meritocratic system like revealing a pseudonym of their choosing as their "name" to their hive so that good queens can build up a reputation - but as it stands right now people have some right to complain about roundstart queens being assholes. Not to toxic levels, but there needs to be feedback.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by dylanstrategie » 30 Nov 2017, 09:55

Pressure to perform is immense, and the gameplay is vastly different from what some people expect (you can't roam around much, you have to stay in the nest often to lay eggs and build things, you need to organize pushes)

Also, the Marines will be hyper focused on shutting down a Queen and killing it the moment it shows up, up to rambo pushes where they just run up to her to gun/grenade her down with zero concerns for their own safety. It can be a brutal and humiliating experience for most novice Queens to be killed like this when you thought you'd be helping by flanking the Marines, for example

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Symbiosis » 01 Dec 2017, 15:05

Protips from a Queen player:

Early game on Big Red/Ice Colony isn't the Marines best time, it's the Xenos. If you use it correctly. The Marines are spread out; unsure of your position. Your runners/etc report a squad somewhere? Take your hive there and wipe it out, dragging survivors back to the Hive.

This leads into the "Siege" stage; either you sieging them or them seiging you. It's crucial you use terrain to your advantage - either by flanking weak points... or by limiting the Marines ability to push you. Battles of attrition rarely go in the favor of Marines. Use your screech; but safely. Do not go into combat - unless you've already killed and gibbed the B18 and SADAR.

Biggest Threats:

B18/SADAR (both are equal risks - assuming the SADAR marine has a backup with a UGL, you're more likely to die to a SADAR due to the near-instaneous speed of the Rocket and long stun time.

Marine Flanks: rarely an issue - a single T3 can generally hold them off if one starts to form.

Multiple Sentries/Land Mines - This should be an obvious one.

Most marine weaponry will do minimal damage to you once you reach Elite and have awarding/Frenzy on. You can easily dodge UGL's with Frenzy and even B18 nades.

Best way to Order T3's: don't be afraid to request certain castes - but don't try to demand an entire hive of Spitter castes, either. As the Queen, you benefit from having a little of everything. B18 being a PITA? Ravagers and Crushers ruin their day!

Quite a bit of what Digitalis said is very true - especially communication! The Hive and its Human Players LOVE to destroy the Marines. You possess the ability to change the round, use it well!
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Gnorse » 01 Dec 2017, 18:08

Commanders/XOs and queens usually take the blame for everything.
With commander/XO, however, you can amass a reputation and if people know you're good enough, they'll preform your orders even if they are unusual.
Queen is a different story. Give an order that isn't meta and you can bet your ass no one's going to follow it since they'll think you're a baldie.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Youbar » 01 Dec 2017, 19:36

I've played the Queen a few times, and honestly, every time I do, it results in a Xeno defeat. I can understand losing once or twice, but every attempt I've given the role has resulted in abysmal failure. I'm not sure whether it's because I don't understand Xeno tactics, whether it's because I replaced a Queen that'd SSD'd a few times, whether it was just a few unlucky draws in terms of unrobust players, or whether it's just because I'm terrible at the role. Regardless, I've sort of blacklisted myself from ever trying to play it again.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Forst » 01 Dec 2017, 19:44

My one time as Queen was midway through a losing round and I got in a 2v1 with an ally Drone and enemy Pred.

Combat nesting was involved, along with infecting and the pred detonating its bomb.

Although my 'heroic' sacrifice inspired the drone to go Queen and win us the round.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by sirhelgate » 06 Dec 2017, 04:52

I think most people don't go queen for the same reason I don't. I am not confident in my ability to herd cats. I have a hell of a time when I squad lead, why would I want to be in command of several several xenos. At the very most I go prae and order around some of the lower castes. There's alot of things I'm just better at than being a queen.
I work much better as a spitter/prae, because I am great at ambush skrimishing, suddenly the back supply line and injured are compromised by a sudden glob of acid smacking into the backs of the dead and dying. Medics panic and either call marines from the front or go themselves. Suddenly the marines have to devide their attention. They may try to pincer you, but if you're playing right you have an escape route already, and an escape plan. Soon the marines are FFing eachother thinking they have a xeno in a dark area between them in a cross fire. You already are gone, escaped into a back way or a vent. The funnier bit is when you're a prae, and the sadar misses you and blows up foritifications that they were coming to reinforce. It's all about flanking, the xenos are supposed to be a hive yes, but each caste has different roles, and are more proficient at certain things.

And I can see why people prefer being smaller more agile castes than going queen.

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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by jalen earl » 10 Dec 2017, 16:52

Youbar wrote:
01 Dec 2017, 19:36
I've played the Queen a few times, and honestly, every time I do, it results in a Xeno defeat. I can understand losing once or twice, but every attempt I've given the role has resulted in abysmal failure. I'm not sure whether it's because I don't understand Xeno tactics, whether it's because I replaced a Queen that'd SSD'd a few times, whether it was just a few unlucky draws in terms of unrobust players, or whether it's just because I'm terrible at the role. Regardless, I've sort of blacklisted myself from ever trying to play it again.

Ive only been queen after ssd queens and its bloody tricky to come back from especially if its early round and you started with bald queen who doesnt do anything and bails without warning. Alot if it ive noticed comes down to who is listening to orders. If your t3s go rambo on high pop you are as good as dead
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by Dumblike » 08 Jan 2018, 06:15

so, queen now have the egging mode and normal mode, so... it is even easier now, isn't it?
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by CaptainYankee » 30 Jan 2018, 14:26

I've never seen anyone be as consistently salty as xenos are when there's a bad queen. I've seen players threaten to report over a first attempt at queen. TBH I don't blame non-xeno mains for being wary of the role, especially picking up queen mid round.
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Re: NOT IT syndrome: A regular issue among xenos

Post by RiskySikh » 30 Jan 2018, 17:59

I guess due to the fact being Queen is a big responsibility and is stress then a CO. Due to the fact you got drones around you yelling at you, and you get some dumb runners or drones that get in your way and gets killed. Its pretty frustrating, and difficult.

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