Dealing with the new Xeno scum

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x31stOverlord
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Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by x31stOverlord » 11 Jan 2018, 08:10

Hello! I'm sure you've all now had at least a few rounds dealing with a distinctive lack of *screech constantly as a marine and perhaps a harder time pinpointing the location of the Queen lizard. So this Topic is about your thoughts as a marine player on the new Queen and tactical changes you would like to see/theorise would be effective at dealing with and or coping with the flexibility employed by the Xenos in their hive and nesting location!

By individual map if you have ideas for specific map or just broader strokes if you have an all encompassing idea. I.E send delta in to die first to find out where to go!
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Kneez » 11 Jan 2018, 08:30

Shoot it until it dies. The whole hive. Problem solved.
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by James5734 » 11 Jan 2018, 09:06

Kneez wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 08:30
Shoot it until it dies. The whole hive. Problem solved.
likes this message
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Lukey111 » 11 Jan 2018, 09:46

I new tactic we should be using would probably be to flank more. Even though we have more numbers than the Xenos, the Xenos still use flanking more often than the marines. We have to flank the queen and try to drive her in a corner, then send all we got to force to fight or make 2 or 3 more eggs. Which, if you don't kill the queen, leads to marine win, since they can't evolve or make eggs if she is not in that mode.
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Dumblike » 11 Jan 2018, 10:43

1. Spam grenade

2. Stun with grenade

3. Shoot

4. Win

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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by McRamon » 11 Jan 2018, 11:40

Lukey111 wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 09:46
I new tactic we should be using would probably be to flank more. Even though we have more numbers than the Xenos, the Xenos still use flanking more often than the marines. We have to flank the queen and try to drive her in a corner, then send all we got to force to fight or make 2 or 3 more eggs. Which, if you don't kill the queen, leads to marine win, since they can't evolve or make eggs if she is not in that mode.
So basically you as a mentor suggest marins to metagame and abuse ooc knowledge about gamemechanics? =)
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Simo94 » 11 Jan 2018, 11:42

Win

Do it!

Just do it!!!!
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by James5734 » 11 Jan 2018, 11:54

Winning is the only thing that matters in this game. if you don't win, you are unrobust and you suck. RP is dumb and you are dumb if you like it. Meta is just another strategy you can use TO win.
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Heckenshutze » 11 Jan 2018, 13:17

Kneez wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 08:30
Shoot it until it dies. The whole hive. Problem solved.
Bayonet the wounded until they gib for bonus points.


Seriously best advice I can give you is to stick together. No matter how you do it your chances increases when you're with your squad.

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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by conthegodoffire » 11 Jan 2018, 13:18

Heckenshutze wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 13:17
Bayonet the wounded until they gib for bonus points.


Seriously best advice I can give you is to stick together. No matter how you do it your chances increases when you're with your squad.
There is nothing in this post I do not agree with.
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Lukey111 » 11 Jan 2018, 13:30

McRamon wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 11:40
So basically you as a mentor suggest marins to metagame and abuse ooc knowledge about gamemechanics? =)
It's not metagaming if you either, one, roleplay it, or 2, hide it from the mods :p
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by ColdSuit » 11 Jan 2018, 14:24

Personally, I love it. The screecher queen tactics were annoying because it gave the xeno side a form of invunerability. A good screech gave the hive a few seconds to kill/drag off/wound/etc. a number of marines with every screech before the marines could return fire in a meaningful way, especially in the interval in which marines must grab their weapons and grab them with two hands (not to mention FF). This meant that unless the xenos was stupid, cocky, or unlucky, they would be able to retreat with minimal losses outside of needing to heal on weeds for a few minutes.

Marines, on the other hand, would have to deal with wounds that require evac, loss of both manpower and equipment through combat expenditure/death/abduction/etc., and damage to fortifications. Now, though the queen can still screech, it comes at the cost of evolution/upgrading and egg-laying. Now it is more of a Almayer boarding tactic or when the hive is against the ropes. This now makes pushing and combat in general much more enjoyable. Ultimately, this is a major rebalance in SS13 combat where stuns are KING.
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Lukey111 » 11 Jan 2018, 15:30

ColdSuit wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 14:24
Personally, I love it. The screecher queen tactics were annoying because it gave the xeno side a form of invunerability. A good screech gave the hive a few seconds to kill/drag off/wound/etc. a number of marines with every screech before the marines could return fire in a meaningful way, especially in the interval in which marines must grab their weapons and grab them with two hands (not to mention FF). This meant that unless the xenos was stupid, cocky, or unlucky, they would be able to retreat with minimal losses outside of needing to heal on weeds for a few minutes.

Marines, on the other hand, would have to deal with wounds that require evac, loss of both manpower and equipment through combat expenditure/death/abduction/etc., and damage to fortifications. Now, though the queen can still screech, it comes at the cost of evolution/upgrading and egg-laying. Now it is more of a Almayer boarding tactic or when the hive is against the ropes. This now makes pushing and combat in general much more enjoyable. Ultimately, this is a major rebalance in SS13 combat where stuns are KING.
Well, that is usually the only way they win, but they added the other stuff, so Xenos always win #pheremones_rule
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by ColdSuit » 11 Jan 2018, 23:07

Trust me, I'd rather deal with global pheremones that buff the xenos slightly (much like attachments in some ways) than another bullshit screech stun.
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Solarmare » 12 Jan 2018, 00:57

I haven't been on the ground since the change I think, so I'm not sure how combat quite goes without the queen screech. Greatest priority is probably praes though I think, good recovery on top of the Queens global warding makes killing a Zeno much harder most likely. Hive cast in general are good to kill because of pheromones really, they're more important now as a support I'd think.

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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Dumblike » 12 Jan 2018, 05:45

Lukey111 wrote:
11 Jan 2018, 13:30
It's not metagaming if you either, one, hide it from the mods, or 2, hide it from the mods :p

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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Forst » 13 Jan 2018, 21:57

I like how it makes everything feel more hopeless.

Earlier another marine and I, well more of the marine was running off to die alone as a rambo and I chased him, were constantly harassed by a runner in the open.

It always stayed out of sight, and when it did attack it was at full health. I /KNOW/ we both got plenty of shots in, but between global pheromones and the fact I use a SMG to suck on purpose we did no major damage to it.

I like it.
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by misto » 13 Jan 2018, 22:11

consider suicide much more seriously as a practical option when captured and infected, and encourage others to do the same. stopping the larva growing inside you basically counts as xeno kill, and it's usually easier to kill yourself than it is to kill the damn aliens. and look, the facehugger did you the favor of removing your helmet, leaving your head good and vulnerable.

i know we all want to be the big hero, but we all know that most attempts to escape the hive or ruin it from within add up to you renested and popping out a fresh larva.

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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by oprayx73 » 13 Jan 2018, 22:18

misto wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 22:11
consider suicide much more seriously as a practical option when captured and infected, and encourage others to do the same. stopping the larva growing inside you basically counts as xeno kill, and it's usually easier to kill yourself than it is to kill the damn aliens. and look, the facehugger did you the favor of removing your helmet, leaving your head good and vulnerable.

i know we all want to be the big hero, but we all know that most attempts to escape the hive or ruin it from within add up to you renested and popping out a fresh larva.
i'll also add to this that charging in to your quite possible death is a viable strategy, especially when you roleplay it properly and gain ground for your team.
Cut them xenos up with yer machete! :D

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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by A normal peep » 13 Jan 2018, 22:22

misto wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 22:11
consider suicide much more seriously as a practical option when captured and infected, and encourage others to do the same. stopping the larva growing inside you basically counts as xeno kill, and it's usually easier to kill yourself than it is to kill the damn aliens. and look, the facehugger did you the favor of removing your helmet, leaving your head good and vulnerable.

i know we all want to be the big hero, but we all know that most attempts to escape the hive or ruin it from within add up to you renested and popping out a fresh larva.
It is VERY hard to escape if you are in a nest,you have do destroy the resin doors if there is any and even if you leave the nest many xenos will try to capture you.So...yeah suicide is the quickest way to get out

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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by misto » 13 Jan 2018, 22:29

oprayx73 wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 22:18
i'll also add to this that charging in to your quite possible death is a viable strategy, especially when you roleplay it properly and gain ground for your team.
you said it. if 5 or 10 pfcs die cornering and killing a ravager or hunter or something, it's a big win, because that fucker could kill dozens and dozens more if theyre allowed to live

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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by DukeOz » 13 Jan 2018, 23:36

Bring gun planetside or if you wanna be spicy bring two.
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by x31stOverlord » 15 Jan 2018, 02:43

So! A few days have past since I posted the topic and a few tweaks to the benos have occurred. Including the removal of global pheromones. The queens pheromones are now centered around the xeno that the queen is over watching. So this removes a bit of a challenge in killing the xeno scum and requires the queen to be a bit more attentive.

One thing I'm noticing in most of my rounds (on lv-624) is that the marines are falling a bit lack with the set up of he fobs. The engineers don't seem to be making any sort of effort anymore with the barricades and the runners and hunters are having a field day. I used to recall the barricades being set up all the way from nexus to hydro, now that doesn't seem to happen at all, even when squads are tasked to it, the Xenos are attacking the Alamo on almost every drop and the pilots refuse to lock the doors to stop themselves being decapped in their cockpit and the marines just don't defend anything anymore.

Changes with more medical gear meaning no one without medical training can use advanced medical or burn kits and take time to apply bandages and ointment will give medics at least a harder time coping with the influx of marines screaming for attention and cause fewer marines to take the first aid pouch as a wasted slot. I understand the desire to make medics be the medics, but on highpop I think that a maximum of 8 medics at most being maybe planetaide is possibly straining their ability to stabalise and ends up with many marines dying needlessly. This is hard to balance against due to the fact that if you increase medic slots on low pop you might have an over abundance of medics. Some sort of compromise or better thought might be needed here.

In all, I think marines need to shape up and actually defend the fobs and LZs! You ain't getting nowhere if your pilots and reinforcements are being picked off somewhere by the LZ because no monkey is watching it!
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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Kesserline » 15 Jan 2018, 06:35

How to kill alien : you have to deal a significant burst of damage in a short timespan, or the Xeno will successfully flee, regen and come back.

How to deal a significant burst of damage in a short timespan :
- Stack firepower : Wider area means more room to make a firing line and add marines to it. The more firepower you have, the more ability to effectively kill Xenos you have.
- Useful firepower : By the way of enhancing your weapon (attachments : BFA, BC, QF for firerate/damageoutput, or RDS, FG, for accuracy to effectively hit your target)
- Lightning tactics : by flanking or pushing fast and hard enough to prevent any response from the xenos targeted. By flanking, you can trap and cut off aliens from their hive and doom them. By pushing, you can violently push the frontline and trap or kill some xenos which did not have the time to fall back. The sucess of these tactics relies heavily on the marines bravery and efficiency and poorly on Xenos mistakes. If you do it right, Xenos can't do shit, end of story.
- Iron defense : Just hide in your FOB. With 2 to 3 layers of defense, sentries. Stack firepower on your barricades. When a Xeno comes, ironstorm on him. If you aim right, he dies. If he does a mistake, he dies. That relies heavily on Xenos mistakes to win. If they want to breach your area without any loss, they will just boiler+crusher and breach your cades. Then, they'll send their footxenos. Only failing xenos or poor estimating xenos will die on your FOB (especially as the Queen won't push FOBs anymore, so, no Xenos will try to suicide-charge to save her when she was grenade spammed).
- OB/CAS : OB is the most miracle tool for marines. You can instantly doom 1+ Xenos for a each hit. But most of the time, you have to push after the OB hit to ensure more kills. CAS is less reliable, enemy can see it coming and flee, making CAS more a area-denial tool than a killing-tool.
- Stop being a pussy/coward : when you have a opportunity to kill, without getting killed, grow a pair and charge. Finish the kill, and then come back to hide behind cades if you want, but at least, killing a xenos worths at least losing 3 marines.

For the rest :
- Think tacticooly : When you see a frontline, don't stack on it if it's too cramped. You won't be able to dodge rhinocharges, boiling shit or neurotox and screech bullshitery. Stand back a few meters back, cover, drag the wounded, replace a wounded on the firing line, or flank another area.
- Wear a gasmask : because it's cool, and you look like a spec ops.
- Listen to your SL, if he worths the shot : when you have a good or a decent SL, advise him and support him.
(- Be tacticool, medicool, technicool or logisticool : copyright by Mark 'Echo' Kesserline.)

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Re: Dealing with the new Xeno scum

Post by Lobster » 16 Jan 2018, 14:06

Just glass the planet from orbit

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