Rank in CM

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Te Matei Cego
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Rank in CM

Post by Te Matei Cego » 13 Jan 2018, 12:16

Hello lately I've been thinking about the CM ranks and it gave me an idea in my head and I would like to know if you have the same opinion and if it could be done.

We all know that CM ranks are "illustrative" and come according to what you want to play in the round for example: SSG-Squad Lead or Military Police.

But what if the rank was really like a '' ladder '' system and to go up in rank would you be noticed in the way you play, how much game time do you have?

CM is already a very famous game and in my opinion this would encourage more people to play.

I would like to know your opinion and if this would be possible!
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by oprayx73 » 13 Jan 2018, 12:18

really wouldn't make sense for baldy mc boot lowest rung on the USCM ladder to out rank his SL or Medic sometimes.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Hastati » 13 Jan 2018, 12:30

Would make no sense at all as you'd have the entire chain of command hopelessly out of order.

Now for medals to be some sort of object, that might be an idea, but that's another issue entirely.

As the "be noticed" thing sounds like a prime candidate for metabuddy circlejerking.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Te Matei Cego » 13 Jan 2018, 12:59

Hastati wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 12:30
Would make no sense at all as you'd have the entire chain of command hopelessly out of order.

Now for medals to be some sort of object, that might be an idea, but that's another issue entirely.

As the "be noticed" thing sounds like a prime candidate for metabuddy circlejerking.
I understand your point of view and I know this would bring a lot of confusion, so I think this kind of system should not be fully implemented in a way that leaves the game confused and applied little by little in the game, perhaps starting with the squads and your ranks.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Heckenshutze » 13 Jan 2018, 13:07

Your idea ain't bad and I understand the point of it but, we couldn't afford to have a grunt with a highest rank than the current SL, for example.

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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Te Matei Cego » 13 Jan 2018, 14:28

Heckenshutze wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 13:07
Your idea ain't bad and I understand the point of it but, we couldn't afford to have a grunt with a highest rank than the current SL, for example.
I understand, thank you
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Jroinc1 » 15 Jan 2018, 23:28

I could see ranks being altered up to one level to reflect playtime, but not really more than that.

Maybe bump you up one rank if you played in the last round?
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Te Matei Cego » 16 Jan 2018, 18:24

Jroinc1 wrote:
15 Jan 2018, 23:28
I could see ranks being altered up to one level to reflect playtime, but not really more than that.

Maybe bump you up one rank if you played in the last round?
It's also an acceptable and interesting idea.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Simo94 » 16 Jan 2018, 19:28

what I would like to see instead is unlocking jobs with time, when you first join the server you can only go PFC or MT for example. then after a week you unlock Spec and Smartgunner.....etc till you unlock XO.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Vispain » 17 Jan 2018, 19:33

Hastati wrote:
13 Jan 2018, 12:30
Would make no sense at all as you'd have the entire chain of command hopelessly out of order.

Now for medals to be some sort of object, that might be an idea, but that's another issue entirely.

As the "be noticed" thing sounds like a prime candidate for metabuddy circlejerking.
Agreed. As for metals being an object...that is a thing
When a CO makes a medal there is literally an object in game that is a medal. You can even pin them on your armor ( it would go in the slot you have in your armor).

As for ranks based off playtime all I can say is God no.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by solidfury7 » 17 Jan 2018, 20:49

Only thing I could see this being doing is if they were bumped up only SLIGHTLY, after a certain amount of time.

So, from Private to Private First Class
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by biscuitsakimbo » 18 Jan 2018, 02:04

I've always advocated for a Baystation 12 type system for job preferences, so doing something similar with ranks would be both flavorful and useful. After a few months a squad marine PVT would become a PFC, a SSGT SL would become a GYSGT, 2LT SO to 1LT SO and so on would (A) reward frequent players and (B) single out who you can trust a bit less in sticky situations.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by beefkill » 18 Jan 2018, 02:36

biscuitsakimbo wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 02:04
I've always advocated for a Baystation 12 type system for job preferences, so doing something similar with ranks would be both flavorful and useful. After a few months a squad marine PVT would become a PFC, a SSGT SL would become a GYSGT, 2LT SO to 1LT SO and so on would (A) reward frequent players and (B) single out who you can trust a bit less in sticky situations.
I think unlocked positions based on X time played has its ups and downs. For certain time slots especially in the early mornings for a lot of North American players. Speaking from experience, a lot of command roles, medics, engineers are empty. IF you added in an unlock system, there could be a situation where there is no command structure at all and that limits the game play for everyone. Just my two cents for what it's worth.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Cry of Wolves » 18 Jan 2018, 03:46

solidfury7 wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 20:49
Only thing I could see this being doing is if they were bumped up only SLIGHTLY, after a certain amount of time.

So, from Private to Private First Class
All standards start at PFC on roundstart, so they have one rank to be demoted to if the time comes.

Now i wouldn't mind seeing marines being able to reach Lance Corporal or even Corporal itself, but that is the highest any Standard should reach IMO.

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Re: Rank in CM

Post by x31stOverlord » 18 Jan 2018, 04:35

I'm not too sure why this really is being discussed. IMO the ranks serve a purpose for the game in a set round. Sometimes ill be an Engie, sometimes an SL. It would really screw with the CoC lists if you start having to input variables when dealing with prole who've played the server a lot. Plus would there be a cap on this, how would it affect the command staff.

It also messes with newer people. If they are wanting to try a command position and manage to get sergeant slot. The SL is dead so theoretically they are aSL, but hang on, the Engie is a longtime player and instead of being a corporal is a Sergeant, the SO promotes the Engie over the spec because they know each other from many rounds. This is metabuddying and this system may throw more and more metabuddy opportunities into the pot.

Ofc this is just my opinion on the matter and that is; leave it as it is. It doesn't serve any ulterior position outside of one round at a time so changing it serves no purpose.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Te Matei Cego » 18 Jan 2018, 09:55

x31stOverlord wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 04:35
I'm not too sure why this really is being discussed. IMO the ranks serve a purpose for the game in a set round. Sometimes ill be an Engie, sometimes an SL. It would really screw with the CoC lists if you start having to input variables when dealing with prole who've played the server a lot. Plus would there be a cap on this, how would it affect the command staff.

It also messes with newer people. If they are wanting to try a command position and manage to get sergeant slot. The SL is dead so theoretically they are aSL, but hang on, the Engie is a longtime player and instead of being a corporal is a Sergeant, the SO promotes the Engie over the spec because they know each other from many rounds. This is metabuddying and this system may throw more and more metabuddy opportunities into the pot.

Ofc this is just my opinion on the matter and that is; leave it as it is. It doesn't serve any ulterior position outside of one round at a time so changing it serves no purpose.
I understand, first of all I thought of this idea because I played CM at a considerable time and in some of my RPs there were often certain players who had no experience in their classes and this made it difficult for the squad's objective and once for the RP itself.

I know there is a Wiki so you can have an idea and know what to do with such a class but it is not everyone who knows and those who know often do not use it.

What I would like to see and for example engineers who really know their role in the game because they are experienced in it and also because they already have considerable game time so I thought that the rank system could help in this by making players more aware of their functions and improving the RP of other players and his own.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by biscuitsakimbo » 21 Jan 2018, 07:43

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting we let people just rank up indefinitely, or that ranks should be tied to what jobs you can have (at least not with that comment in this thread). I'm saying that after being a player for X Weeks/Months, your IC rank in a particular job will increase. An SL who's been playing for x months isn't a SSgt, but a GySgt. Not every month of play as SL you rank up until you're an Admiral. I think there would only be like 2-3 diff. ranks per job, or just 1, depending on the job. A good Standard could be a LCPL, with sufficient months of Playtime, but never a CPL, which would still be the base engineer/medic rank. And engineers/medics wouldn't be NCOs, etc. We'd keep the rank structure the same, in the sense that each role would still outrank the same roles, but within those roles there would be variety based on the experience of the player. You could also do this by rounds played in a particular role i.e. 100 matches as a Standard makes you rank up.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by biscuitsakimbo » 21 Jan 2018, 07:47

x31stOverlord wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 04:35
I'm not too sure why this really is being discussed. IMO the ranks serve a purpose for the game in a set round. Sometimes ill be an Engie, sometimes an SL. It would really screw with the CoC lists if you start having to input variables when dealing with prole who've played the server a lot. Plus would there be a cap on this, how would it affect the command staff.

It also messes with newer people. If they are wanting to try a command position and manage to get sergeant slot. The SL is dead so theoretically they are aSL, but hang on, the Engie is a longtime player and instead of being a corporal is a Sergeant, the SO promotes the Engie over the spec because they know each other from many rounds. This is metabuddying and this system may throw more and more metabuddy opportunities into the pot.

Ofc this is just my opinion on the matter and that is; leave it as it is. It doesn't serve any ulterior position outside of one round at a time so changing it serves no purpose.
Reasons why this is being discussed? So baldies can easily tell who's a better player than them, for one. So people can feel 'a sense of pride and accomplishment' when they rank up, for another. There's also the utility of having different ranks. If you're an SL and you want to form FTs, you can easily tell the skill level of your soldiers and distribute them efficiently. Another example is SOs being able to determine which squad is the most suited for certain assignments/objectives. Above all of this, having more ranks improves immersion.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by x31stOverlord » 21 Jan 2018, 08:01

biscuitsakimbo wrote:
21 Jan 2018, 07:47
Reasons why this is being discussed? So baldies can easily tell who's a better player than them, for one. So people can feel 'a sense of pride and accomplishment' when they rank up, for another. There's also the utility of having different ranks. If you're an SL and you want to form FTs, you can easily tell the skill level of your soldiers and distribute them efficiently. Another example is SOs being able to determine which squad is the most suited for certain assignments/objectives. Above all of this, having more ranks improves immersion.
Not... Sure... If sarcasm on the whole pride and accomplishment. Whilst I agree more ranks would be a good way to improve immersion as such. But the whole "meta buddying" problem might occur more often with the longer term players that may or may not put off the newer players to the server.

Plus the whole "knowing who is better" shouldn't be used, as all of the same rank should have the same skillset and abilities ICly. It would be good for you as the player to know that "Colour Marshal Sergeant Barrett" might be a better player than "Corporal Crewie" but in all honesty I think it will just dissuade the newer players from the game and or roles due to the fact everyone would meta buddy the system and ensure they have no opportunity to prove themselves capable .
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by biscuitsakimbo » 21 Jan 2018, 09:41

x31stOverlord wrote:
21 Jan 2018, 08:01
Not... Sure... If sarcasm on the whole pride and accomplishment. Whilst I agree more ranks would be a good way to improve immersion as such. But the whole "meta buddying" problem might occur more often with the longer term players that may or may not put off the newer players to the server.

Plus the whole "knowing who is better" shouldn't be used, as all of the same rank should have the same skillset and abilities ICly. It would be good for you as the player to know that "Colour Marshal Sergeant Barrett" might be a better player than "Corporal Crewie" but in all honesty I think it will just dissuade the newer players from the game and or roles due to the fact everyone would meta buddy the system and ensure they have no opportunity to prove themselves capable .
Obviously people don't have the same skills and abilities IC. They have the same training. The skills and ability of a mob are the skills and ability of the player. The IC 'everyone has the same training across a job' is enforced by certain jobs not being able to C4, read pill bottles, wear B18, etc. Your skill and ability is up to you. People are more or less skilled than others. And obviously having more ranks wouldn't dissuade people from playing a game in which there's already an entire rank system and clear chain of command. And you really don't seem to understand the proposal, it would just be an automatic thing that happens once you've played long enough, it has nothing to do with actually proving that your capable, you would just automatically rank up one pay grade once a certain period of time has passed. I'm not sure how you think meta buddies could factor into a system which is entirely automatic and not decided on by players in any way. I feel like the proposal is pretty intuitive and I've somehow made it seem complicated, so let me just say it as plainly as possible.

Once 6 months have passed since you started playing CM, your character's ranks will all increase by one pay grade for certain jobs. A player's who's been playing for 3 months and joins as an SL will be a Staff Sergeant. A player who's played for 6 months or 3 years will be a Gunnery Sergeant when he joins as an SL. The various ranks, what ranks will be attained, how long it will take, etc. is all just hypothetical, but that's my proposal.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by x31stOverlord » 22 Jan 2018, 03:00

I understand the premise. But for the amount of effort that would need to be done to implement it just for the sake of giving players a badge is, in my eyes at least, not worth it.

As for my point of meta budding, how many times have you seen in game people having positions like CT/RO and giving out attachments to people they know/are known on the server and witholding attachments from others of the same 'rank'? I've seen it a few times and this rank system might encourage more of this, where you can easily identify a 'crewie' by lack of rank and purposefully withold gear/attachments because of your instinctive prejudice of them.

Maybe I'm just being overly critical of the idea and are far too thinking into it. Either way. It is up to the Devs if they feel value would be added to the game for the amount of effort it would take to code
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Steelpoint » 22 Jan 2018, 03:21

The best I could see this working is if it was a OOC affair. Maybe like Warzone 2100.

In Warzone 2100 multiplayer, next to a players name would be a set of 'stars' to denote their rank. Each people could have up to three stars of sorts each denoting a certain thing. (https://betaguide.wz2100.net/mp_ranking.html)

You could look to adding that sort of thing next to people's OOC names to denote more so how long they've played the game, and how many rounds they've accomplished (maybe even track if they play more xeno or human rounds to completion).

But its a lot of effort.
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Re: Rank in CM

Post by Shuffl3 » 22 Jan 2018, 04:09

Just musing here.
But if the goal is give players in leadership positions some context for assuming which subordinates could be relied upon without having to memorize all the various characters you see across the rounds. If we said that a class encompassed a range of ranks then playtime could be used to assign ranks to players of a class relative to each other in the current round. For example, a generic rifleman could be a PVT, PV2, or PFC. The most experienced players in the class for that game would be PFC, the middle ground would be PV2, and the lower end plus players without a designated minimum amount of time would be PVTs. As new players join they could just be given the rank of the range that they fit in. Some nifty mechanic could be employed to make demotions semi-persistent.

More ranks would have to be added in to prevent excessive overlap, and it could limit roleplay. But CM uses ranks like WO in a limiting way and you could borrow from navy ranks if you split the ships crew from the marine forces. And as long as players had the ability to selectively demote themselves during character setup you wouldnt lose the ability to RP a newb.

It seems like a workable idea that could increase the depth of the setting as well as provide functional utility.
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