Almayer weapons systems

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RobBrown4PM
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Almayer weapons systems

Post by RobBrown4PM » 08 Feb 2018, 23:08

The Almayer has a number of weapons systems, however, they are nothing more than sprites at the moment and they don't do anything. Are there any plans to see the rail guns and missile launchers made functional? My hope is that the entire infrastructure and game play behind the weapons could be changed up. Much like how the DS weapons systems are loaded, the rail guns and Missile launchers could be loaded manually and then manned and fired by a player.

There is some space available still on the Almayer that could be turned in to magazines and from there munitions could be brought up, loaded and then fired. A new class/job could be created, something akin to an SWO, to handle all the ships weapons systems.

Obviously this is just my thoughts on the matter, and likely it will never happen, but it's nice to dream about.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Philby0 » 08 Feb 2018, 23:14

My guess is, apart from the orbital cannon, no weapon on the Almayer is made for combat at such a range. Basically we'd need a human vs human mode with two ships to even consider making these guns work.
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Jackilopia
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Jackilopia » 08 Feb 2018, 23:55

Well if any of the guns fire shells then it wouldnt have a range if you are shooting down to a planet cause the shell would A, be firing from space so no air friction and B, when it would hit the planets atmosphere it would still be falling cause of gravity. So yeah it should work but I think they dont use those because they have the orbital cannon which me personally think is enough.

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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Shuffl3 » 09 Feb 2018, 01:23

It gets kinda interesting to game all this stuff up. Lore wise most marine ships arent equiped with many Orbit-ground weapons. Its all space combat weapons like directed energy systems and anti-satellite missiles. So it could be argued that theyre not merely sprites. Theyre ship-ship combat weapons that get referenced during UPP boarding scenarios.

As far as range goes. I want to say that the Alm is in geostationary or at least high orbit. Which is pretty high if these are earthlike planets. 350km or something. But like Jack said, the KI weapons wouldnt really care about distance. However Id think they would have a much greater impact if they had the mass to punch through the atmosphere. Ablative cooling can only get you so far

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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Jackilopia » 09 Feb 2018, 01:59

Well I think these shells would have the velocity to literally punch through the atmosphere cause if you think of it the range they would probably normally fire at is probably well over the distance to the planet. So add the normal speed plus the fact that its falling towards a planet it should still hit the ground.

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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Shuffl3 » 09 Feb 2018, 03:35

I guess I wrote that wrong. But I think the guns depicted in the sprites aren't big enough to launch a projectile large enough to survive atmospheric entry at the speeds that it would hit. Youd need something much bigger to keep it from vaporizing or just rapidly oxidizing away. Project thor was something like 30 tons a projectile and it had speeds about less than a third of whats described.

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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by RobBrown4PM » 09 Feb 2018, 10:23

Shuffl3 wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 03:35
I guess I wrote that wrong. But I think the guns depicted in the sprites aren't big enough to launch a projectile large enough to survive atmospheric entry at the speeds that it would hit. Youd need something much bigger to keep it from vaporizing or just rapidly oxidizing away. Project thor was something like 30 tons a projectile and it had speeds about less than a third of whats described.
That's where a heat resistant sabot would come in (HEDS?). The sabot would ensure the round doesn't disintegrate or fly off trajectory during it's entry in to the atmosphere. Once it's passed through the atmosphere the sabot would be discarded and the round would carry on until impact.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Jenner » 09 Feb 2018, 11:00

RobBrown4PM wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 10:23
That's where a heat resistant sabot would come in (HEDS?). The sabot would ensure the round doesn't disintegrate or fly off trajectory during it's entry in to the atmosphere. Once it's passed through the atmosphere the sabot would be discarded and the round would carry on until impact.
Yes, but these are ship to ship defense weapons firing ammo designed for that purpose. I doubt a heat shield would be standard issue on rounds fired from it.


I like the idea but we already have CAS and OBs. The one thing I'd like to see is to make the OBs throwable but as a tradeoff a xeno could melt them
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Philby0 » 09 Feb 2018, 14:43

Jackilopia wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 01:59
Well I think these shells would have the velocity to literally punch through the atmosphere cause if you think of it the range they would probably normally fire at is probably well over the distance to the planet. So add the normal speed plus the fact that its falling towards a planet it should still hit the ground.
Agreed, but that logic would apply to anything.

I can shoot an AK from 40 000km and be sure to hit the planet, doesn't mean I can effectively shoot where I want.

So, basically this :
Shuffl3 wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 01:23
As far as range goes. I want to say that the Alm is in geostationary or at least high orbit. Which is pretty high if these are earthlike planets. 350km or something.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by RobBrown4PM » 09 Feb 2018, 14:58

Jenner wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 11:00
Yes, but these are ship to ship defense weapons firing ammo designed for that purpose. I doubt a heat shield would be standard issue on rounds fired from it.


I like the idea but we already have CAS and OBs. The one thing I'd like to see is to make the OBs throwable but as a tradeoff a xeno could melt them
If you look at most ships they are often supplied with a wide range of ammunition types, which could be used for different scenarios.

The Almayer is basically a troop/assault carrier. You would think it would have some form of ammunition for its rail guns that could deliver orbital strikes.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Jenner » 09 Feb 2018, 15:42

RobBrown4PM wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 14:58
If you look at most ships they are often supplied with a wide range of ammunition types, which could be used for different scenarios.

The Almayer is basically a troop/assault carrier. You would think it would have some form of ammunition for its rail guns that could deliver orbital strikes.
IE orbital cannons. That's what the OB is for
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by RobBrown4PM » 09 Feb 2018, 15:45

Jenner wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 15:42
IE orbital cannons. That's what the OB is for
Agreed, though I was talking about rail gun ammo types.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Jenner » 09 Feb 2018, 15:50

RobBrown4PM wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 15:45
Agreed, though I was talking about rail gun ammo types.
I figured the OB was firing on a rail system? Itd make the most sense on a space vessel of that size
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Sulaboy » 09 Feb 2018, 16:02

What is like to see is a use for that observational area past CIC that never gets used. Maybe we could deploy some combat system in the fob that gives command a large stationary zoomed out view of the fob or the lz. It could have to be a large machine set up by an engineer and require a steady stream of batteries to keep the uplink running. This would allow people in the bridge to move to the observation area to get a good look of how the fob is working. The machine might also be a two way radio from planet to ship that allows communication without telecommunications. This might not be the right way to go about making that weapons deck have a purpose but it's a shame that it's only used for holdouts during ship defenses.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Hughgent » 09 Feb 2018, 16:05

So here's the thing. There are trade offs for almost every weapon. Those rail-guns at the front of the ship are nested pretty heavily inside. they don't have much, if any, gimbals that would allow them to shift their aim. This would be why they can't be pointed downward without having the ship itself point nose down. However this comes with some significant bonuses as well. Nestled deep in the ship means they can be ultimately stable allowing for much greater range, which is important in space battles. This also allows them to be better protected and maintained during combat. You don't want to take a shot and lose your main armaments.

additional point to this is that it presents the slimmest profile to your enemy. we are assuming that changing orbits and positions is difficult or wasteful of fuel due to inertia and mass. Thus, making yourself harder to hit against high velocity ordnance, while being able to return as much fire as possible is important.

So with this in mind, it comes down to specialization. Costs and benefits. The Orbital Bombardment cannons are specialized to point downwards and have gimbals for tracking and fine tuning their aim. They lose out on armor, but if you're at the point of holding orbit there shouldn't be a need for armor against things that can hit space as 1. you've got a planet for cover and 2. only rockets and other "slow" moving projectiles can make it through atmosphere without burning up. Shuffl3 is correct on this point.

So while it would be cool to make use of those rail-guns and missiles, those things just are too long range to be of use in the "knife fighting" range of <1000 km.

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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by forwardslashN » 09 Feb 2018, 17:29

Philby0 wrote:
08 Feb 2018, 23:14
My guess is, apart from the orbital cannon, no weapon on the Almayer is made for combat at such a range. Basically we'd need a human vs human mode with two ships to even consider making these guns work.
This is essentially correct. The Almayer is supplied with several ship v. ship guns, and outside of fighting another vessel, they're kind of useless. Would be cool to see though, and I'm quite certain many people would enjoy working weapon systems.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by RobBrown4PM » 09 Feb 2018, 17:40

Hughgent wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 16:05
additional point to this is that it presents the slimmest profile to your enemy. we are assuming that changing orbits and positions is difficult or wasteful of fuel due to inertia and mass. Thus, making yourself harder to hit against high velocity ordnance, while being able to return as much fire as possible is important.
Having already achieved orbit, I would say the Almayer would have the hardest part out of way. To maneuver in to position at that point could be done via RCS or some other form of thruster system. Fuel would surely be expended, however, I imagine the Almayer would have more than enough for res positioning and the like.
So with this in mind, it comes down to specialization. Costs and benefits. The Orbital Bombardment cannons are specialized to point downwards and have gimbals for tracking and fine tuning their aim. They lose out on armor, but if you're at the point of holding orbit there shouldn't be a need for armor against things that can hit space as 1. you've got a planet for cover and 2. only rockets and other "slow" moving projectiles can make it through atmosphere without burning up. Shuffl3 is correct on this point.
I agree that the Railguns might not be the best weapons to use in an orbital combat role, however, I think they would be extremely beneficial given that any ordinance they fire (that could hypothetically make it through the atmosphere) would be devastating, especially if it had HE filler.
So while it would be cool to make use of those rail-guns and missiles, those things just are too long range to be of use in the "knife fighting" range of <1000 km.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Shuffl3 » 09 Feb 2018, 18:17

Philby0 wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 14:43
I actually had a brain fart there, got mixed up with the ISS and forgot a couple zeros. 350km is about where the ISS orbits. Geostationary is like 35,000km.

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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by RobBrown4PM » 10 Feb 2018, 12:31

Heh, with this latest update, the missile rooms have received elevators, albeit, non-functional ones.

I'm calling it, we're getting functional missile launchers!
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Philby0 » 10 Feb 2018, 18:58

forwardslashN wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 17:29
This is essentially correct. The Almayer is supplied with several ship v. ship guns, and outside of fighting another vessel, they're kind of useless. Would be cool to see though, and I'm quite certain many people would enjoy working weapon systems.
I wonder how hard it would be to make the "planet" another Almayer. Maybe the two ships would have to play some kind of Battleship minigame to decide which team boards the other one. I'd make a great event. Even the spawning could probably be arranged to make the two crews similar.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Shuffl3 » 11 Feb 2018, 03:53

Philby0 wrote:
10 Feb 2018, 18:58
I wonder how hard it would be to make the "planet" another Almayer. Maybe the two ships would have to play some kind of Battleship minigame to decide which team boards the other one. I'd make a great event. Even the spawning could probably be arranged to make the two crews similar.
I think it'd be tricky to implement well and in a way that could involve the entire server.

Im not sure if its still running but you could look at FTL13. Theyve been trying to refine the concept for awhile but you can get a feel for how the reality of it falls short. Ship to ship combat has its design challenges.
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Re: Almayer weapons systems

Post by Cobraman202 » 11 Feb 2018, 09:11

I think we would need to see a few minor updates to make ship to ship combat work. EG: Hull armor, Parts of the ship breaking off
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