The Armat Ammolathe

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The Armat Ammolathe

Post by driecg36 » 13 Jul 2017, 08:46

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):

Replace the ARMAT ammo vendor in req with an "ARMATTM Ammolathe." Instead of inserting mags to refill them out of a magic, yet otherwise inaccessible, pool of bullets, the Ammolathe would be able to print handfuls of bullets of any type at the cost of metal, as well as an empty universal ammo box to hold them.
(These)
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Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

The current ways to obtain ammo are as follows:
1) Order overpriced ammo crates for limited amounts of ammo.
2) Raid Marine preps for standard ammo, something that is tedious and annoying to do, not to mention makes little sense ICly.
3) Refill empty mags, which requires a marine to go all the way back to req and hand in the mag, which is difficult considering mags auto-eject once empty and are easy to lose.

None of these methods are enjoyable for anyone or particularly efficient, meaning that cargo usually doesn't bother with anything that isn't standard m41 ammo and SADAR rockets. More importantly, they feel really gamey and gimmicky, especially 2 and 3, as they make little sense ICly (you'd think Req would have their own supply of ammo without stealing from marine vendors, and that there would be a way to tap into this magical pool of bullets without needing the appropriate, empty magazine.

This method introduces a logical way to resupply marines on the ground, especially with unique ammo types, without having to waste points on expensive ammo crates, which heavily limits the amount of fun cargo can have with their orders, instead, just having to order cheap metal crates. Different bullets would cost different amounts of metal, so standard m41a bullets would cost less than incendiary sniper rounds. The marines would still require the appropriate magazine to fire rounds, so this wouldn't mean "free m41 incend ez gaem" (not to mention mass producing m41 incend ammo would be very metal heavy). The universal ammo box, which would be a hand held, huge item (so it couldn't be fit into bags), would allow these bullets to be transported to the ground easily, as well as sorted in a reasonable manner. The large ammo crates would still come full, and be order-able for a quick ammo boost for the lazy CT, perhaps even being more point effective than ordering metals and printing regular ammo.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc:

This would simply replace the ammo vendor in the southwestern room of cargo with an Ammolathe. Every single type of ammo would be printable in handful form, even shotgun slugs and shells. Different ammo types would cost different amounts of metal, depending on their power potential. The empty universal ammo box would be pretty cheap, and be able to hold around 200 bullets (perhaps with variation on type). It would not fit into bags, and would only be carriable by hand. The ammolathe would not be able to print magazines however, to prevent spamming a colossal amount of incendiary rounds if cargo were to devote their entire point fund to metal for the Ammolathe. Cargo would still need to order special ammo to have the mags the bullets would fill.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Code in a new version of the autolathe, but with an armat vendor sprite.
Last edited by driecg36 on 13 Jul 2017, 09:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by Steelpoint » 13 Jul 2017, 08:58

Can't you just insert a empty magazine into the Cargo Vending Machine (after you've hacked it to accept all ammo types in the game) then withdraw it to get the magazine fully reloaded?
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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by driecg36 » 13 Jul 2017, 09:00

Steelpoint wrote:Can't you just insert a empty magazine into the Cargo Vending Machine (after you've hacked it to accept all ammo types in the game) then withdraw it to get the magazine fully reloaded?
You can, but I went over why that made no sense ICly and was too annoying to be worth it OOCly.

It's much simpler and less of a headache to simply be able to send the bullets down rather than have to take the magazine up, refill it, then send it down again.
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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by Casgair » 13 Jul 2017, 09:44

Sounds like a way to get cheaper sniper incendiary rounds, if anything.

That said, there's another side to this, though; while it saves the CT time, it doesn't help a squad who has to now fart around in some NanoUI window to refill ammo. Can you imagine 12 marines+ all trying to get their empty rifle mags filled at the same time? I can, and it's absolute chaos.

In practical applications it would probably make sense to send a few mags/ammo belts down first along with a box so that one grunt who is otherwise just going to FF his squaddies has something else to do with his time.

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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by driecg36 » 13 Jul 2017, 09:50

Casgair wrote:Sounds like a way to get cheaper sniper incendiary rounds, if anything.

That said, there's another side to this, though; while it saves the CT time, it doesn't help a squad who has to now fart around in some NanoUI window to refill ammo. Can you imagine 12 marines+ all trying to get their empty rifle mags filled at the same time? I can, and it's absolute chaos.

In practical applications it would probably make sense to send a few mags/ammo belts down first along with a box so that one grunt who is otherwise just going to FF his squaddies has something else to do with his time.
Well, if 12 marines walk into the req office and the RO isn't prepared, that is the RO's fault completely.

Besides, the option of ordering large ammo crates for standard ammo still exists, and the ammolathe is mostly used for special ammo which is a pain to get otherwise.

And on top of this, marines can still refill their standard mags in Armat vendors.
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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by Casgair » 13 Jul 2017, 09:52

Now you've lost me, is the ammolathe something you give on a supply drop, or a stationary machine?

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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by driecg36 » 13 Jul 2017, 09:56

Casgair wrote:Now you've lost me, is the ammolathe something you give on a supply drop, or a stationary machine?
The Ammolathe is a standard machine replacing Req's old ammo vendor. There is a single one on the ship, in the back room of req.
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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by Casgair » 13 Jul 2017, 10:00

Okay, but your main argument for this thing is that

>It will make req's life easier (sort of)

>It will help restock marines on the ground by removing the need to bring in empty mags back from the field (as described, it doesn't)

If it's a stationary object that stays on the ship.. I'm not really seeing the benefit, here?

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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by driecg36 » 13 Jul 2017, 10:06

Casgair wrote:Okay, but your main argument for this thing is that

>It will make req's life easier (sort of)

>It will help restock marines on the ground by removing the need to bring in empty mags back from the field (as described, it doesn't)

If it's a stationary object that stays on the ship.. I'm not really seeing the benefit, here?
I really don't see what about my original post isn't clear. it is simply a machine that directly prints bullets at the cost of metal. It removes the tedium of going around prep rooms do collect ammo, allows req to resupply non-standard ammo without having to go through the process of bringing the mags back up to the ship (which is again, tedious and nonsensical), and allows more points to be spent on other things while keeping non-standard ammo in constant supply.
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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by Casgair » 13 Jul 2017, 16:04

I think my issue is that you've described how the ammo lathe will work, but not the ammo box. Best of my knowledge that doesn't exist in game in the form you're talking about. Edit: I guess actually it does? Shows how long it's been since I've played as CT.

If this is the case you're looking at different implementation; creating items, sprites (potentially for mag bullets), and code for an ammo box in addition to an ammolathe. Now that I'm reading this again it sounds like the lathe makes bullets that go in a box rather than being the box itself, so working on those assumptions:

Will the large ammo box would work like a large backpack for ammo? (If so it might be prudent to have this object draggable but not something you can pick up - clicking with empty hand opens inventory)

Would you click on an empty mag with an M41A bullets object (again, I don't think this exists as of right now) and have it automatically refill that magazine, or would you need to go bullet-by-bullet?

How do you reconcile the generation of exotic handfuls of ammo, such as incendiary slugs?

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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by Daman453 » 13 Jul 2017, 22:54

I would suggest something along the lines of this. Req can make mags from metal, refill empty mags using metal, or create a ammo supply box. SADAR rockets is going to cost everything in metal while M4A1 isn't.
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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by misto » 14 Jul 2017, 01:39

this sounds like an ok idea, but i feel like theyre gonna jack up the price of metal, if metal is made extra useful

as for the "realism" aspect, this is no worse than the current magic ammo vendor that generates free bullets into empty magazines, or the functioning of most regular autolathes, capable of creating complex electronics such as the multitool out of blocks of glass and steel. we have to accept some realism shortcuts that are smoother over with sci-fi magic or else we will get bogged down in excessive simulationism

of course this raises certain further questions in my mind - if we have autolathes and armatlathes, why aren't we printing out sentries and heavy pulse rifles and tactical shotguns all day long? they all seem to be objects that are well within the technology's capability

maybe it COULD be allowed, if it took long enough for the printing to complete.

instead of buying shitty crates that MIGHT have an m4r rifle or whatever in them, maybe ro could buy the schematics for these, or a schematic for sentries, copy it into their lathes (i would suggest several lathes rather than just one) and let it print for 10 minutes

or when they hack the computer to access black market, they could be buying black market schematics that they copy into their armatlathes to build whatever guns and ammo there too

then cargo would be converted into a partial weapons+ammo manufacturing workshop, with the cargo shuttle there to deliver raw materials or whatever items deemed too precious or too complex to be allowed to be manufactured

this raises a lot of good possibilities!
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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by misto » 14 Jul 2017, 15:22

this remins me of the ship parts manufacturer device sitting in a workshop type area off the hangars. does that do anything?

ha ha, just last night in RO line me and some other guys were discussing how strange it was that machetes are limited in supply. the autolathes can print out all sorts of tools and electronics, but a simple machete is beyond them?
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Re: The Armat Ammolathe

Post by KingKire » 21 Jul 2017, 11:49

Okay, old idea, but if people are hung up on realism of having unlimited ammo:

AMMO PORT:

every ammo vending machine is connected to a pipeline port in the floor. using the wonders of futuristic 1930's- 1970's based pneumatic wonders, ammo from the ships inner cargo hold is transferred up into the vendors.
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