Embrace the Suck

Generic, on-topic discussion about Colonial Marines.
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Feweh
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Feweh » 20 Sep 2017, 16:08

We cant have endless streams of xenos, because the fact is 75% of the players don't want to play Xenos. This is despite the xenos being somewhat interesting now with abilities and a progression system.
By making them mindless hordes, people will be even less likely to play as aliens.

Hence why xenos over-time have been buffed up to match being able to initially fight 120 vs 20

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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Trench007 » 20 Sep 2017, 16:21

Feweh wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 16:08
We cant have endless streams of xenos, because the fact is 75% of the players don't want to play Xenos. This is despite the xenos being somewhat interesting now with abilities and a progression system.
By making them mindless hordes, people will be even less likely to play as aliens.

Hence why xenos over-time have been buffed up to match being able to initially fight 120 vs 20
Yeah, that's why I said my idea was unpractical. Not enough people would actually play to create those hordes.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Trench007 » 20 Sep 2017, 16:23

Now all we need is to get some good AI for those mindless Xenos...
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by LightBeast » 20 Sep 2017, 16:35

Damn that really sucks. I can see why people would want an individual identity/progression as Aliens (even though that's contrary to the entire idea) but I don't understand why having some AI/bot buddies with you and overwhelming the marines as a swarm wouldn't appeal to players. You could have the best of both worlds where you can upgrade/personalize your own drone or whatever and then still create bots from hosts maybe.

The only reason I see the bot Alien idea as feasible is because there are lots of AI/autonomous things in regular SS13, so it seems like you could stick that AI on a drone bot to have it follow you and attack marines.

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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by 4thsurviver » 20 Sep 2017, 17:55

LightBeast wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 16:35
Damn that really sucks. I can see why people would want an individual identity/progression as Aliens (even though that's contrary to the entire idea) but I don't understand why having some AI/bot buddies with you and overwhelming the marines as a swarm wouldn't appeal to players. You could have the best of both worlds where you can upgrade/personalize your own drone or whatever and then still create bots from hosts maybe.

The only reason I see the bot Alien idea as feasible is because there are lots of AI/autonomous things in regular SS13, so it seems like you could stick that AI on a drone bot to have it follow you and attack marines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7qW4meknY

I couldn't really see these guys defending a hive or overruning a FOB let alone get to the ship. Also from what I heard there was only supposed to be 6 bots not 60.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Telegnats » 20 Sep 2017, 18:12

Yeeaaaa... Unfortunately the rudimentary AI that SS13 usually employs isn't going to cut it for CM's purposes. Unless we can get a real, functioning AI (Which is really hard to made) i'm not sure we could really add bots.

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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Casany » 20 Sep 2017, 18:13

LightBeast wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 16:35
Damn that really sucks. I can see why people would want an individual identity/progression as Aliens (even though that's contrary to the entire idea) but I don't understand why having some AI/bot buddies with you and overwhelming the marines as a swarm wouldn't appeal to players. You could have the best of both worlds where you can upgrade/personalize your own drone or whatever and then still create bots from hosts maybe.

The only reason I see the bot Alien idea as feasible is because there are lots of AI/autonomous things in regular SS13, so it seems like you could stick that AI on a drone bot to have it follow you and attack marines.
Well, if you had ever tried coding in Byond you'd see why. It's a mess of code and it's almost impossible to get working simple AI. The best AI in the game right now is Goons advanced critter AI (the monkeys), and if you've ever played Goon you'll come to realize it really isn't that advanced.

It's not because they don't want to, it's because they can't with the system without extreme effort.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Trench007 » 20 Sep 2017, 18:17

4thsurviver wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 17:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7qW4meknY

I couldn't really see these guys defending a hive or overruning a FOB let alone get to the ship. Also from what I heard there was only supposed to be 6 bots not 60.
A perfect example of the bots needing their AI tweaked, also they would be support rather than the main driving force. A horde of cannon-fodder, I should say. It would be cool to see an updated test with newer sprites.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Snypehunter007 » 20 Sep 2017, 18:34

LightBeast wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 15:41
Yeah I know that, I was just saying that you could get this same experience and have the same amount of fun with the game feeling a bit more like Aliens than it does now. Isn't that what the devs want in the end, anyway?

I don't want to sound like the mouthy noob that shows up and starts vomiting opinions everywhere, and I really appreciate the hard work that obviously goes into this very fun game (reading the changelog and wow) it's just my opinion as a lifelong Alien fan who's always wanted a game like this and sees the potential for the perfect Aliens game experience that so many of us have always wanted. I've been on the server playing religiously and will continue to do so because it's a great game, but the guy just seemed irritated that I even suggest changing anything - probably due to how much work has gone into it. I understand.

That's a bummer that the suggestion forum is locked. D:
The reason this is basically unfeasible is due to a number of things.

1.) Its been basically three years worth of work on the way aliens are currently and we would essentially be throwing all of that out the window by trying to move to this.
2.) Due to the way the server has progressed in terms of gameplay, players would be unwilling to play something so underpowered as normal aliens and marines would quickly wipe them out.
3.) As has been pointed out above and in other places, not enough people want to play xenos for this to be even remotely viable, the reason why marines got stomped in the "Aliens" movie is because the xenos outnumbered them by such a large number and the xenomorphs could do things we couldn't hope to replicate on the BYOND engine.

As a side note, we might open up suggestions again soon but its a pretty big maybe. Regardless, your suggestion would have gotten shot down pretty quickly if you suggested making xenomorphs more like their movie counterparts.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Desolane900 » 21 Sep 2017, 01:10

Tfw you make a post trying to encourage people chilling the fuck out and instead it just becomes Feweh's hangout right under Applications and draws more salt than Utah.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Heckenshutze » 21 Sep 2017, 01:24

Desolane900 wrote:
21 Sep 2017, 01:10
Tfw you make a post trying to encourage people chilling the fuck out and instead it just becomes Feweh's hangout right under Applications and draws more salt than Utah.
Usually telling people to 'chill out' makes them more salty. It's better to join their salty rage or make them even more salty until they flush it out
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by LightBeast » 21 Sep 2017, 17:08

Snypehunter007 wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 18:34
The reason this is basically unfeasible is due to a number of things.

1.) Its been basically three years worth of work on the way aliens are currently and we would essentially be throwing all of that out the window by trying to move to this.
2.) Due to the way the server has progressed in terms of gameplay, players would be unwilling to play something so underpowered as normal aliens and marines would quickly wipe them out.
3.) As has been pointed out above and in other places, not enough people want to play xenos for this to be even remotely viable, the reason why marines got stomped in the "Aliens" movie is because the xenos outnumbered them by such a large number and the xenomorphs could do things we couldn't hope to replicate on the BYOND engine.

As a side note, we might open up suggestions again soon but its a pretty big maybe. Regardless, your suggestion would have gotten shot down pretty quickly if you suggested making xenomorphs more like their movie counterparts.
That's crazy that people don't want to play xenos. At least in this latest version that I've joined, it seems like the xeno teams are always full. My suggestions wouldn't be these huge sweeping changes, but rather testing very simple things one at a time while keeping the gameplay mostly how it is now as to not drive away players or the xeno player population.

Little stuff like resizing the tier 3's so they're not all the size of Queens, nerfing the boiler cloud (hate that thing) and maybe altering the Queens gameplay a bit so she has to stay on an egg sack to lay eggs, the sentinels and drones have to move them, and she plays more like a CO/commander where she can see everything from her brood's eyes and stuff like that.

A lot of those things are kind of just to make stuff more movie-accurate, which are things I noticed as a new player. It would help immersion in what is otherwise a very immersive game. The bulk of the game is great already, though. Time well spent for the devs, and reading the changelogs, I see how much it's changed over the years, especially the aliens.
4thsurviver wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 17:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7qW4meknY

I couldn't really see these guys defending a hive or overruning a FOB let alone get to the ship. Also from what I heard there was only supposed to be 6 bots not 60.
This is pretty cool though. If you could just get a few of these guys to follow the players, or maybe give the queen a swarm ability to unleash at critical moments where a wave of like 10 bot drones could just charge a position. That would be pretty rad, I think.

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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Casany » 21 Sep 2017, 20:10

LightBeast wrote:
21 Sep 2017, 17:08
That's crazy that people don't want to play xenos. At least in this latest version that I've joined, it seems like the xeno teams are always full. My suggestions wouldn't be these huge sweeping changes, but rather testing very simple things one at a time while keeping the gameplay mostly how it is now as to not drive away players or the xeno player population.

Little stuff like resizing the tier 3's so they're not all the size of Queens, nerfing the boiler cloud (hate that thing) and maybe altering the Queens gameplay a bit so she has to stay on an egg sack to lay eggs, the sentinels and drones have to move them, and she plays more like a CO/commander where she can see everything from her brood's eyes and stuff like that.

A lot of those things are kind of just to make stuff more movie-accurate, which are things I noticed as a new player. It would help immersion in what is otherwise a very immersive game. The bulk of the game is great already, though. Time well spent for the devs, and reading the changelogs, I see how much it's changed over the years, especially the aliens.



This is pretty cool though. If you could just get a few of these guys to follow the players, or maybe give the queen a swarm ability to unleash at critical moments where a wave of like 10 bot drones could just charge a position. That would be pretty rad, I think.
As cool as this'd be, it sadly is never going to happen
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Tidomann » 23 Sep 2017, 15:42

You can't spell Colonial without Colon.

Colonial marines.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Damous » 24 Sep 2017, 09:55

>Embrace the being a Cuck
T. Cucks

I've had more fun stomping 4 aliens, getting captured, hugged and then killing myself out of spite than RP'eing my way through a 1/2 hour round.

Like our friend back there said "embracing the suck" is like what a commie would say after looking out of a window and seeing his own dystopia where he lives in, a real ss13 player git gud and kill everything on their way.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Skimmy2 » 24 Sep 2017, 14:16

Damous wrote:
24 Sep 2017, 09:55
Like our friend back there said "embracing the suck" is like what a commie would say after looking out of a window and seeing his own dystopia where he lives in, a real ss13 player git gud and kill everything on their way.
There are no real ss13 players in years, because the Toolbox is no longer red and the most robust weapon in game.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Dolth » 26 Sep 2017, 05:42

Feweh wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 16:08

Hence why xenos over-time have been buffed up to match being able to initially fight 120 vs 20
Pretty sure aliens are buffed because they are meant to win most of the time as CM is built for marines being the game main characters.

At least that's what Apop said in the balance thread.
And tbh, I am curious to see how many aliens spawned in a round. Cause you never get 120 marines vs 20 aliens in a place but rather 20 vs 15 or so.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Damous » 26 Sep 2017, 15:41

Dolth wrote:
26 Sep 2017, 05:42
Pretty sure aliens are buffed because they are meant to win most of the time as CM is built for marines being the game main characters.

At least that's what Apop said in the balance thread.
And tbh, I am curious to see how many aliens spawned in a round. Cause you never get 120 marines vs 20 aliens in a place but rather 20 vs 15 or so.
Besides it takes fuckin 30 minutes for briefing. At that point aliens are already mature.

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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Dolth » 27 Sep 2017, 09:37

Regardless. They are buffed individually because that's how the game is meant to be played, numbers of protagonists are almost equal when fighting on the same front.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Polari » 04 Oct 2017, 22:50

Whenever I explain this server to people they ask why I play when marines almost always lose. And it's not really about winning, it's about the gameplay. No one wins in CM, except if you have fun and RPed.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by RobBrown4PM » 06 Oct 2017, 10:02

Losing is humbling and a learning experience. It's ok to lose, it makes you a better player in he long run. It also forces you to learn new things, which ultimately makes the game that much funner.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by PerfectDeath » 29 Oct 2017, 02:22

One round some Xenos did a meta rush on the Colony Medical Facility and smashed the med venders.

I decided to try and RP it by complaining to the ship staff to get on the CL's case that Wey-Yu shouldn't cheap out on the Colony's medical facilities. I mean, in-character I wouldn't know the Xenos did it. All I would know in-character is that the colony has no med-venders.
Too bad no one gave the CL a bone so he could RP a bit.

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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by zane » 01 Nov 2017, 18:14

PerfectDeath wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 02:22
One round some Xenos did a meta rush on the Colony Medical Facility and smashed the med venders.

I decided to try and RP it by complaining to the ship staff to get on the CL's case that Wey-Yu shouldn't cheap out on the Colony's medical facilities. I mean, in-character I wouldn't know the Xenos did it. All I would know in-character is that the colony has no med-venders.
Too bad no one gave the CL a bone so he could RP a bit.
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by Reuben Owen » 26 Nov 2017, 09:11

I think it'd be cool to have a round where xenos outnumber marines heh
100 player xenos vs 20 player marines

but yeah we definitely don't have the number of xeno players for that
also it would make those 20 marines feel like such special snowflakes IT MAKES ME WANT TO RIP AND TEAR
on the bright side 20 marines dying generates less salt than 80
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Re: Embrace the Suck

Post by fanit937 » 26 Nov 2017, 10:53

Reuben Owen wrote:
26 Nov 2017, 09:11
I think it'd be cool to have a round where xenos outnumber marines heh
100 player xenos vs 20 player marines

but yeah we definitely don't have the number of xeno players for that
also it would make those 20 marines feel like such special snowflakes IT MAKES ME WANT TO RIP AND TEAR
on the bright side 20 marines dying generates less salt than 80
Just had a round where XO, three marines and me a researcher escaped to planetside, going down underground via the elevator, find comms and backup. Felt like a real survival and a movie.

It was really fun and intense to be in a small group against the odd, unlike the usual chaos that is 100 marines and their attachments, and the feeling counts, even though most of aliens were shipside. Too bad (or good for ghosts) round ended after a few minutes.

Also it's awesome to have them alongside (found me clothes to keep me warm). :) You definitely have better chance and motivation to care more about your teammates and, essentially, cooperate with them.

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