A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Generic, on-topic discussion about Colonial Marines.
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Renomaki
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A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Renomaki » 28 Dec 2017, 23:19

Who here played Total War? Yeah, I see a few raised hands.

If you play or played Total War, you would know about the Morale System, which is a very vital component to success in the game. Even if you come across an enemy army with better weapons or greater numbers, you can win the battle by using tactics to invoke morale shock to break their confidence, meanwhile doing your best to keep your men's spirits up, lest you want to risk your own army fleeing from a winnable battle.

When you think about it, CM13 isn't too different compared to Total War, due to how vital keeping good morale is. You could give marines some of the biggest guns and the mightiest bombs at round start, but it won't mean shit if a few skirmishing xenos can cause them to run for the hills (which I seen happen more than once). One moment, your marines might be willing to fight tooth and nail to hold a single plot of land even if it means charging blindly to their deaths, only for those same marines to suddenly break off and scatter at the sight of a few drones.

I make this topic so that we may discuss the effects of morale, morale shock, and what affects our personal morale during a battle. What things inspire you in battle? What causes you panic? How do you feel when marines are uncontrollably charging forward one moment, only to suddenly be fleeing a winnable fight the next?

I always brought this up in Dchat, but now I wanna get a little deeper here on the forums, and maybe even learn a few things in the process! Might help our gaggle of commanders and NCOs, eh?
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Jroinc1 » 28 Dec 2017, 23:41

Conflicting orders.

OUTDATED orders. When aliens get inside the command info processing loop, that really sucks. Like being told to "hold hydro" when hydro fell 5 minutes ago. Or evac orders after the evac has left.

Large numbers of wounded. Dead aren't as much of an issue, but obvious wounded slow the advance while they try to get out, and we try to help them.

Paincrit. I have seen people COME TO MEDBAY for treating 25 burn damage, cause they though they broke something.

FF, especially from "strong" roles. Nothing kills morale like losing 2-4 people due to a HE rocket/HPR burst.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by davidofmk771 » 28 Dec 2017, 23:51

Seeing a field triage covered in garbage and dead boots is crushing to morale. Keep that stuff organized.

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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by taketheshot56 » 28 Dec 2017, 23:58

It only takes one, thats what ive noticed.

Ill be leading an assault as SL, one of my marines will be killed by a hunter, despite that we still are doing better than the ayys, but then someone notices the dead marine and stops, the marine will then retreat by himself, its then a domino effect, more and more marines will fall back with this one lone marine and by the time the aliens have been pushed anywhere, the line has broken and is in full rout despite only losing maybe 3 people.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by TheMusician321 » 29 Dec 2017, 00:37

I feel so god damn helpless when I see marines running from a totally winnable battle, I think most of it comes from people being too scared to charge the xeno lines and instead everyone retreats, letting the wounded be picked off or those glorious few who stand and defend the wounded be picked off and infected with them, marines just need to be braver and we need to be a cohesive fighting unit, small groups work wonders for these, hell at one point Me Trevor and a bunch of other dudes got together and kicked ass since we actually worked together as a unit instead of being a disorganized mob.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by DriedMilk » 29 Dec 2017, 00:44

I would also like to submit about SOs saying marine casualties over the Squad radio. This hurts morale alot when you realize half of your squad is gone. Please keep casualties (unless requested) for the Command Channel or just the people inside the CiC.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Heckenshutze » 29 Dec 2017, 01:37

I don't feel nothing but anger when I see coward marines. If you want to survive the whole round play a god damn shipside role you stupid French.

Now, when all marines charge in a single push like a bee swarm firing and screaming and stabbing xeno scum now that's a morale booster.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Minimike » 29 Dec 2017, 01:41

Heckenshutze wrote:
29 Dec 2017, 01:37
I don't feel nothing but anger when I see coward marines. If you want to survive the whole round play a god damn shipside role you stupid French.
I play a Frenchman and I take offense to that.

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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by NoahKirchner » 29 Dec 2017, 02:18

Battlefield executions.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by RealNewDeal » 29 Dec 2017, 02:55

Having a bridge defence, with it being the only way xenos cross, then an officer dropping an OB on a PFCs orders that kills all the Marines on the bridge and destroys all the defenses.

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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Martzin » 29 Dec 2017, 03:47

taketheshot56 wrote:
28 Dec 2017, 23:58
It only takes one, thats what ive noticed.

Ill be leading an assault as SL, one of my marines will be killed by a hunter, despite that we still are doing better than the ayys, but then someone notices the dead marine and stops, the marine will then retreat by himself, its then a domino effect, more and more marines will fall back with this one lone marine and by the time the aliens have been pushed anywhere, the line has broken and is in full rout despite only losing maybe 3 people.
I'd like to testify to this. There's not much more deeper to go than that marines just follow mob mentality and do what everyone else does. 1 guy watches his friend get gang-banged and he starts running backward. When the people see one guy running they start running too. The dominos keep falling and soon enough the whole front is lost. The marines just need to not be cowards and be aggressive. Not being a coward is average, being aggressive gives you the advantage.

Just typing that out seems to explain alot. Marines arent aggressive enough. Probably from the fact that they know the game's rigged against them or that they know their whole army is shitty from the start but im sure being more aggressive without the chaotic FF or general tomfoolery they'd fare much better. But expecting marines to not do either of those things is a bit much, dont you think?
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Cryzone » 29 Dec 2017, 06:35

Heckenshutze wrote:
29 Dec 2017, 01:37
you stupid French.
I am French and I take offense to that.
I am Hans 'Robot' Krautz.

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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by BladeBr » 29 Dec 2017, 08:13

Marines will loose morale the moment dead bodies start piling up in the battlefield. Or when NCOs just can’t keep morale up.

But when you have competent NCOs, this raises morale BY ALOT.
I remember a roubd where I was spec and was taking down the xenos. I was last spec but was there, downing elite queens and other ayys for marines to kill.

They only retreated the moment they noticed that the last spec was on the ship, dead.

So yeah, smartgunners, Specs and SLs does wonders to raise or lower morale.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by NethIafins » 29 Dec 2017, 08:34

What people need to understand, is for squad most of the effective firepower is in Specialist, Squad Leader (with proper cas+OB) and Smartgunner.

Everyone else (even medics and engineers) are to support those three. If one of those three dies - morale goes down
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Thanteus » 29 Dec 2017, 12:10

Heckenshutze wrote:
29 Dec 2017, 01:37
I don't feel nothing but anger when I see coward marines. If you want to survive the whole round play a god damn shipside role you stupid French.

Now, when all marines charge in a single push like a bee swarm firing and screaming and stabbing xeno scum now that's a morale booster.
the only times I see a good genuinely dedicated push repelled, are when multiple (or even single) machine gun spitters are up and about, those things are a major PAIN IN THE ASS. I've seen a single elite praetorian hold off an entire push, I can't imagine an ancient one.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Skimmy2 » 29 Dec 2017, 13:58

Moral is difficult in CM because of intimidation.

Pretend a ravager or crusher are a 20mm HE Autocannon, you will quickly want to find cover from said autocannon far faster then say, a spitter/hunter, which is only a MG.
Another analogy is that a slower firing HMG is more intimidating then a faster firing Medium MG, even though a MMG would have far higher danger to a rifleman.

Regardless, the literal key to maintaining moral is Discipline, and the USCM is a lot of things, Disciplined not being one of them.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by spartanbobby » 29 Dec 2017, 15:59

My morale instantly dies when peri is banned or the RO is being a bit of a dick with attachments for no reason.

So in other words the outlawing of useful things for no reason other than "Peri killed my dog"
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Simo94 » 29 Dec 2017, 16:07

Morale depends on comms for me, if the squad is active in comms and kinda RP its a good day to die.


Also can Commanders and SOs stop counting down KIAs on comms and even announcements please? that is morale and muh immershun breaking
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by BladeBr » 29 Dec 2017, 17:19

spartanbobby wrote:
29 Dec 2017, 15:59
My morale instantly dies when peri is banned or the RO is being a bit of a dick with attachments for no reason.

So in other words the outlawing of useful things for no reason other than "Peri killed my dog"
A good morale booster is send people like Murry on the front.

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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Robotic Potato » 29 Dec 2017, 23:24

Morale is usually brought down when Command does stupid shit like early briefings, shitty orders, RO being a dick about ordering anything because he just needs those 200+ points, denying PFCs attachments because they're 'limited'/they just don't like they said a swear. For the most part morale is soley rested on the shoulders of Command and what choices they make, and of course Medical. If medical is too slow, or dickish morale will go right down.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Renomaki » 29 Dec 2017, 23:48

For me, nothing ruins morale more than things like lack of direction, silence from command, and utter chaos.

When I am an NCO on the ground, I tend to rely a lot on command to guide me and my squad and put us to good use doing whatever is needed. Having an SO that is chatty, or even a CO that is willing to personally communicate with the squad on their own comms network can help keep men focused on the objective, as well as give them comfort knowing that their officers can hear them and their requests for help when needed.

However, being confused by strange orders or left hanging when I ask a question does not help my morale very much. Nothing I hate more than when command is silent and ignorent, too busy to attend to the needs of their troops.

And when shit hits the fan and I can't get my men to regroup, it hurts my morale even further knowing that I can't keep my troops in line anymore, my troops suddenly adopting a mentality of "every man for himself!" instead of trying to stick together as a team and defend vital positions or perform organised flanks.

When I'm not in a leadership position, I can handle my morale a bit better, but I can still get affected by things like command being silent, or giving us strange orders that don't make any logical sense. And when sadness starts to overcome me due to a feeling of helplessness and abandonment from my commanding officers, it really does a number on my fighting spirit.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by McRamon » 30 Dec 2017, 01:26

Competence. Competence is boosting morale, incompetence is lowering it. From pfcs around you to command, competence of every men counts. Imagine yourself in nexus trying to figure out where is your squad and what to do. You hear engineer asking for metal for frontline barticades and smartgunner asking for powerpack and RO personally asking back "what else?" , medics from anothet squad working hard and some marines are escorting wounded and supplies, sniper constantly reports enemy position and CO is making up to date announcements with orders. And compare it to situation where you see two dead specs, dont hear command at all, medic beating marine with first aid box instead of pulling out kit and actually healing wounds and two alphas beating each other in the corner over barrel charger from still alive but paincrit smurtgunner. Nothing by its own can really affect morale in both cases, sudden xo speach wont make marines move and some stupid actions of baldie or unfortunate ff wont lower morale of all marines at once.

In conclusion, i think morale is in direct ratio with overall competence and you really cant do much single handedly, even if you are CO.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by DriedMilk » 30 Dec 2017, 01:43

NoahKirchner wrote:
29 Dec 2017, 02:18
Battlefield executions.
Have to agreee on this one especially on BE for minor things such as cowardice or disrespect, let the MPs handle that. Worst is, a CO blaming a Marine for a being a coward, even though your job is to keep Marine morale high and doing BEs just for cowardice is just going to make the situation a lot worse.

If you have to execute Marines for being cowards then the one failing is not him, but you, as you failed to keep Marines at an acceptable morale.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by conthegodoffire » 30 Dec 2017, 11:03

Morale drops for me the moment that I have a shit squad lead, or no/bad SO.
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Re: A discussion on morale, and what effects it

Post by Skimmy2 » 30 Dec 2017, 11:46

DriedMilk wrote:
30 Dec 2017, 01:43
Have to agreee on this one especially on BE for minor things such as cowardice or disrespect, let the MPs handle that. Worst is, a CO blaming a Marine for a being a coward, even though your job is to keep Marine morale high and doing BEs just for cowardice is just going to make the situation a lot worse.

If you have to execute Marines for being cowards then the one failing is not him, but you, as you failed to keep Marines at an acceptable morale.
Didnt we you know, stop killing our cowards after ww1 because we discovered that ptsd was a thing?
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