Predator report(steelpoint)

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Pshy
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Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Pshy » 15 Sep 2017, 09:38

Your Byond Key:Pshy3214

Your Character Name:Mature hunter (683)

Accused Byond Key(if known): Steelpoint

Character Name: -

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 6:45am (7:45 est)

What rule(s) were broken: Predator honor code

Description of the incident: I was a hunter skulking about the map and not currently engaged in combat, I hadnt even known it was a predator round until i was nearly elite and the marines had arrived when i saw his cloaked sprite cross a bright pathway while i was cloaked myself, i notified the queen and was informed to avoid him. As soon as i stop stalking and retreat from the marines after a successful ambush the predator uncloaks, equips a weapon and charges me without a word. His intent obviously clear i follow the queens orders and scuttle off to the nearest tunnel at which point he nails me with the plasma caster as im squeezing through the tunnel to prevent my escape and obviously kills me quite easily while im stunned and half health.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): -

How you would punish the accused: Short job ban or a very strong warning that attacking a lone individual doesnt automatically make it an honor duel(and thus, warrant the use of a plasma caster on a fleeing individual)

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Steelpoint
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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Steelpoint » 15 Sep 2017, 09:58

It is not against the honor code, based on what I have read, to plasma caster a prey that you have engaged in a duel, but they then proceed to run away. I clearly made my presence known before attacking in addition but you tried to flee after I engaged you.

Also the plasma caster was not my first weapon of choice, while I cannot remember the specifics but I would've used it as a weapon of last resort. Especially since most xenos can easily outrun a Predator and I had been chasing some Hunter around the map for a long period of time.
This is war, survival is your responsibility.

Alan Bentway: Marine
Kwei Ikthya-de: Predator

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Sargash
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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Sargash » 15 Sep 2017, 10:00

Your Byond Key:Sargash

Your Character Name: Originally observing. Witnessed some of the behavior. Later joined the round.

Accused Byond Key(if known): Steelpoint

Character Name: -Kwei Ikthya-de

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 6:45am (7:45 est)

What rule(s) were broken: Predator honor code. Maybe even Rule 7, in response to seriously getting in the way and blocking Xeno movements, and actively destroying the hive.

Description of the incident: Witnessed the predator in question open fire on a hunter (Not the same hunter that started this complaint either.) with the plasma caster within the hive, and around the hive. Predator had originally, as far as I could tell, opened up with his spear thrower. Then when the hunter fled, began plasma casting him. This same predator was running around and between Xeno's, even potentially blocking their movements (On purpose or not, with the blocking part. He was in the middle of Xeno swarms, in an active fight.) Throughout the enter battle at the Tablefort, he had continuously attacked walls, and sticky resin, even some doors. Some Xeno's may have gotten fed up and tried to scare him off. Case in point, the one referenced hunter that was plasma casted inside the hive.

Later he'd actually ran up, cloaked, to a marine who was nested, unested them, then attempted to flee with the marine. This was after the marine had stated in LOOC:"Let me honor duel the pred lel" Or some such.
Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): -

How you would punish the accused: A serious stern talking to about what constitutes unworthy prey. Potentially a temp ban on predators so he understands the mistake. Even as far as a 'Bad Blood.'

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Sargash
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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Sargash » 15 Sep 2017, 10:02

Steelpoint wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 09:58
It is not against the honor code, based on what I have read, to plasma caster a prey that you have engaged in a duel, but they then proceed to run away. I clearly made my presence known before attacking in addition but you tried to flee after I engaged you.

Also the plasma caster was not my first weapon of choice, while I cannot remember the specifics but I would've used it as a weapon of last resort. Especially since most xenos can easily outrun a Predator and I had been chasing some Hunter around the map for a long period of time.
It's only unworthy prey if it's an honor duel. You can't simply attack anyone you want, and if they don't want to fight, and decide to run away from the attack, call them unworthy and plasma blast them to death.

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Steelpoint » 15 Sep 2017, 10:06

Onto the second post.

I did destroy some stick resin around the xeno hive, mostly because some xenos (mostly the hunter I was hunting) were using it to harass me and then retreat into, thus making it impossible for me to follow. The adjacent cave network was filled with stick resin to the brim so I had to clear some of it for myself.

I was never intentionally blocking xeno movement at all, I may have accidently bumped into some xenos rarely but that is by the by. No xeno ever came to harm or death from my accidental blockage.

I did enter the xeno hive, but that was in pursuit of a hunter who was a long term prey and was going above and beyond in engaging and then running away from me. I did destroy a few doors on the most isolated side of the hive to grant entrance into the hive, and two wall pieces when I tried to flank the hunter. But at this point the humans were in full suppression past hydro so the hive threat was negligible. I did NOT attempt to destroy the hive, I highly doubt two missing doors in some obscure corner will destroy a hive, nor did I release any captured Humans.

On the last part about me unnesting a marine, I did un-nest a marine since I saw them get swarmed as the Alamo retreated. However, I did not notice any LOOC attempt to communicate with me, and I did not actually free the Marine, they were still captured by the xenos.
This is war, survival is your responsibility.

Alan Bentway: Marine
Kwei Ikthya-de: Predator

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Sargash
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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Sargash » 15 Sep 2017, 10:14

You destroyed multiple walls inside of the nest. Which did infact open up firing lanes into previously defended areas. You ran around the hive slashing walls open again and again. I can count one instance where you were behind a predator and he had to retreat, could not and took multiple bullets.

These walls were not broken while the marines were pushed past Hydro, they were broken even during times when marines were on the north side of the river, in large groups. These walls, and doors, were walls directly around the Tfort, where our main forward nest was. Not in some obscure corner. The sticky resin, was sticky resin that was slashed directly on the front line, and directly to the east flank.

You ctrl+clicked teh marine and tried to drag him away. Lots of people saw it, some even remarked on it in LOOC I believe one person said "He's being dragged by the hunter" though that may have been IC. We only got him back because he was pushed by a hivelord he got infront of you with Resin walking on and frenzy.

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Pshy » 15 Sep 2017, 10:19

Steelpoint wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 09:58
It is not against the honor code, based on what I have read, to plasma caster a prey that you have engaged in a duel, but they then proceed to run away. I clearly made my presence known before attacking in addition but you tried to flee after I engaged you.

Also the plasma caster was not my first weapon of choice, while I cannot remember the specifics but I would've used it as a weapon of last resort. Especially since most xenos can easily outrun a Predator and I had been chasing some Hunter around the map for a long period of time.
There was no duel, thats the point. Just because you uncloaked and tried attacking someone doesnt make it a duel, a duel actually requires the other party to consent, at the very least you need to actually issue a challenge otherwise whats the difference between a regular hunt and an honor duel? The only presence you made known was uncloaking which is what all predators need to do before hunting worthy prey not just for engaging in honor duels.

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Feweh » 15 Sep 2017, 12:41

Sargash wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 10:02
It's only unworthy prey if it's an honor duel. You can't simply attack anyone you want, and if they don't want to fight, and decide to run away from the attack, call them unworthy and plasma blast them to death.
Uh, yes thats exactly how it works. Predators can attack anyone they want. (Provided they arent injured etc)
Prey dont get to pick and choose their fights. If youre engaged and flee youre free to be taken down by plasma caster.

Ill look into the other guys report, but Sargash your report has no rule breaks.

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Sargash » 15 Sep 2017, 22:21

Feweh wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 12:41
Uh, yes thats exactly how it works. Predators can attack anyone they want. (Provided they arent injured etc)
Prey dont get to pick and choose their fights. If youre engaged and flee youre free to be taken down by plasma caster.

Ill look into the other guys report, but Sargash your report has no rule breaks.
Can you specifically clarify what an honor duel is? If it's now different than what is in the code of honor. I was under the impression an honor duel was specifically a challenge. And only fleeing from honor duels, constituted plasma castin'.

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Butlerblock » 15 Sep 2017, 22:29

Honor duels are when both sides 100% agree to fight. If this is with xenos(which is never basically) they aren't allowed to be near or on weeds during the fight, or call to help from their fellow xenos. If it's marines they can't have any chems inside their system, which would also heal them/give advantage. If you break any rules of an honor fight, you'll have the same results as if you ran away as a prey, but instead they'll hunt you down from the ends of the planet to make sure that you ARE dead, and won't hold themselves back to melee shit. Usually if you're a prey and you escape from their plasma caster, they'll usually let it pass and forget about you. Break an honor duel and you WILL die, given the time.

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Steelpoint » 15 Sep 2017, 23:10

From my understanding from other Predator players it is acceptable to use a Plasma Caster on any general prey (not a honor duel candidate) if they attempt to flee from an engagement. Generally since most xenos, the ones worth fighting, can outrun a Predator.
This is war, survival is your responsibility.

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Kwei Ikthya-de: Predator

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Pshy » 15 Sep 2017, 23:32

Steelpoint wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 23:10
From my understanding from other Predator players it is acceptable to use a Plasma Caster on any general prey (not a honor duel candidate) if they attempt to flee from an engagement. Generally since most xenos, the ones worth fighting, can outrun a Predator.
If thats the case then it needs clarifying on the forum rules because nowhere does it say that fleeing prey are considered unworthy unless they flee from an honor duel. Hopefully the 8/10/2017 isnt out of date( http://colonial-marines.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2693 ) because your actions not lining up with it is the entire purpose of the thread.

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by shyshadow » 16 Sep 2017, 00:16

If I may post here, I'd like to elaborate "Both parties need consent". Under no circumstance, do both parties have to agree to honor duel. An honor duel is the hunter's choice. As their target, in most cases would not accept the standards as they wouldn't have anything to gain, I mean their life is on the line sooo yeah. Obviously the opposite party would in no case know the rules of honor duels. So exactly how do you get consent for something you don't know exists? Yeah, anyway. I don't see any actual rule break other than maybe that saving the marine. Perhaps he saw his struggle and wanted to duel him? Maybe some other reason, as long as the Predator isn't massively dicking over the Xenos on purpose, or no reason other than to fuck over Xenos I see no reason for him to be punished. He's a hunter, he wants his prey, either be ballsy and go straight in or wait for them to come out. It's the hunter's choice.

In summary: Steelpoint had a specific target/prey, they were inside hive. He didn't want to wait so he went straight in. Causing a little bit of ruckus while inside, hopefully getting his trophy. In my opinion, why shouldn't he be allowed to do this? I don't see anywhere that it says he can't. He's the hunter, you're the prey. I feel like Xenomorphs get a little whiny and can't grasp that Predators aren't there to be nice. They're there to hunt.

I mean I'm not staff, nor am I witness I just want to elaborate on the "honor duel" shenanigan.
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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Sargash » 16 Sep 2017, 00:42

A duel still needs to be stated. And theres still the fact that the predator CONTINUED to slice walls and sti ky resin, and continued to unintenionally stand in the middle of a swarm of xenomorphs, bodyblocking their paths. (Which to me seems very,very unpredator like.) A duel is stated. Whether consent from both parties is their or not. Otherwise whats to stop every single attack being an honor duel until the predator heals themselves? Honor. Real life honor. And integrity.

In anycase, it was more than the sudden attack on the hunter who immediately ran. Their was bodyblocking. Running around. Slashing open walls and doors. (Which is typically fine. But doing so after the 'unworthy' was dead, and ignoring all other possible prey and just running through the hive over and over breaking walls is.... unpred like.) So. Ya. It's more than just the plasma casting on worthy prey.

Let it be stated for the laaarge majority of the round I was observing. Most of this stuff I wasn't in game and witnessed. So none of it's from salt. The only thing I was in game for, was the unnesting of the marine. Outside of that. No interactions were had.

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Butlerblock » 16 Sep 2017, 02:04

While what the pred did wasn't rule breaking, because if prey run from the predator while being hunted, they're allowed to be plasma casted. It does suck for the hunter to be killed by that, because the queen "ordered" him to run away from the pred. Meaning he was going to die no matter what, which really brings a negative view on predators.

Edit: Oh I was referring to the original appeal, not the one posted after.

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Re: Predator report(steelpoint)

Post by Feweh » 20 Sep 2017, 14:27

So basically.

Because you fled, you were fair game to be plasma-caster.
Honor Duel OR being Hunted makes you viable for plasma-castering if you flee from the Predator.

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