[digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

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Challenger
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[digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Challenger » 22 Sep 2017, 14:16

Your Byond Key:
digitalis

Your Character Name:
Ellen Rahal

Accused Byond Key(if known):
Rustarus

Character Name:
Max Terry

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results):
12:00 September 22, 2017.

What rule(s) were broken:
Marine-Specific Rule 1 (Lethal Force), Marine-Specific Rule 9.1, Global Rule 0.2 (Follow RP Guidelines), Global Rule 7 (No Griefing).
Specifically what I find objectionable here is that a recently whitelisted Commander used his position as a Commander in a low RP fashion specifically with the intent of getting kills with the Mateba regardless of other factors.

Players involved in the round:
Fox(?) Tanner, MP, apprehended and brought to custody for execution procedure, later battlefield executed when being moved by Rahal from CO.
I, Ellen Rahal, MP, apprehended Fox Tanner, later battlefield executed when moving Tanner away from CO.
Max Terry, CO, attempted to (improperly) execute Tanner in the brig, then battlefield executed Tanner and Rahal while they were moving away from the brig.
Luke Compton, CMP, was aware of and observed the entire events of the brig, allowed for execution of Tanner.
Around 3-4 people in the brig, LTs and MPs, who weren't really doing anything significant.

Description of the incident:

Arresting Tanner:
The incident started off mostly with me and the CMP agreeing over public comms as well as MP comms that we were going to brig anyone we saw using fire extinguishers for stupid reasons for hooliganism, after I witnessed the CL repeatedly use one to propel themselves with a fire extinguisher around populated places. I noticed that MP Tanner picked up a fire extinguisher and kept trying to use it in similar situations, buckling himself into a roller bed and trying to use it, then asking me where he could find a wheelchair, etc., eventually he started just spraying it around in the hangar while running so I get permission from the CMP Compton to arrest MP Tanner and we begin a manhunt that goes mostly unnoticed by the CO. At some point after racking up quite the time of resisting arrest, Tanner makes an explicit threat to kill me over MP comms so we raise the code to blue, I arm myself with a pistol, and we begin a larger manhunt for him. The CO by this time is now interested in the case and running around looking for the MP, and yells out his location in the pilot's office. I don't recall if the CO had his mateba out or not. I make my way to Tanner's location and arrest and cuff him, and bring him to the brig. By this time I and the CMP have agreed that he is to be prepared for execution, and I set Tanner up in the chair over at the execution room.

The CO gets involved:
The CO at this point makes an announcement (though I didn't notice it at the time) authorizing Tanner's execution and then states at least once that he wishes to use his Mateba to execute the prisoner. I mostly shrug off this off until the CO actually enters the execution room so I could explain to him that he could not, for the purposes of execution procedure, be a part of the MP-only firing line. He quickly rushes through the rest of the prerequisite steps for execution, asking Tanner for his last words, and prepares to fire his weapon while I argue with him. He argues the point with me IC, then switches it over to LOOC where I quote the specific lines in Marine Law stating that the execution needed an MP firing line, and finally he states that he ahelped it and got the answer that being part of the execution as a CO would be an "IC" issue. At this point there is a general ruckus being caused because the execution room is filled with us as well as some MPs and LTs so it's difficult to recall exactly what everyone said.

I try to save the prisoner:
By now the Commander is adamant that he will be executing the prisoner alone with his Mateba (none of the other MPs are asked or implied to join the firing line). I stand in front of the prisoner to block the Commander's shot of the mateba and state my case that the CO should not be battlefield executing someone in legal custody, nor be a part of the execution procedure as he is not an MP. The CO replies with giving me a countdown timer to move out of the way or he would shoot the prisoner. In the end, motivated by the prospect of neglecting my duty as an MP to protect my prisoners and by the heavy potential resistance present in the room, I prime a flashbang, toss it in the room, run out to avoid being stunned, run back in and grab the prisoner and make my way with them to a maintenance hall to safety. At this point the CO arrives (in front of the MPs who could have pursued and arrested me) and shoots both of us with his mateba, specifically continuing to shoot me well after I was dead and decapitated to keep removing my limbs. This ended the conflict.

The main point against the Commander I would make is this:
- He attempted to illegally execute OR battlefield execute a prisoner, knowing that as an MP in either case I would be likely to make the entirely realistic decision to protect the prisoner as demanded by Marine Law, and then battlefield executed me when I did so.
A supplementary point is this:
- The Commander was malicious in how they roleplayed the whole situation as they very clearly and constantly wanted to force themselves into a situation where THEY would get to personally mateba someone, regardless of how much sense it made, ie MPs are protesting and would kill the same guy in a legal execution anyway if you gave them time.

Overall his actions weren't up to par of what the Commander whitelist demands in following the roleplay guidelines, as well as what the server demands of reasonable use of force, and I would want him punished for this reason.

In addition what I find interesting related to this altercation is that he had a barrel charger and a red dot on his Mateba by the end of the round, although I don't know if he had it before the queen was noticed on the almayer or after, and that he makes comments in his app thread (http://colonial-marines.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=14670) about, essentially, wanting to execute for RP reasons more.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
None, didn't take caps during and logs scrolled off after (the queen and sentinel's performance in a different section of the Almayer was too captivating).

How you would punish the accused:
Ban, dewhitelist from CO, or warn. Overall the issue is of low roleplay and griefing.
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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Rustarus » 22 Sep 2017, 15:14

Ah boy! My first report! How giddy I am! This was honestly one of my funnest rounds, first execution, and queen capturing fun on board the ship.

None the less, here is my side of the story.

Felix was detained for insubordination hooliganism, attempted murder, resisting arrest, and "Murder" which you said. He also kept a synthetic named "Alan" hostage. I order him to be taken to the execution chamber, for how much of a ruckus he was causing. I go over to the CIC, announce that he is to be executed via firing squad, and then went to the execution chamber myself to overview it. He is set down, and the CMP and a few other MPs were there too. I was goooooing to partake in it, but Ellen (Challenger) said I could not. Now, at the time, I didn't know this, and I fully take responsibility for that, so I looked it up in the rules and marine law. It says that MPs can partake, but nothing about the CO. I ahelp about it, a mod said that it was really just an IC issue at this point, and I can partake but just... don't do all of the killing yourself. So that confirms it.

None the less, before the execution starts, you take him off the chair, say this is an "Illegal execution" when about 4 MPs are standing there with their pistol out, waiting to execute him.

"I try to save the prisoner:
By now the Commander is adamant that he will be executing the prisoner alone with his Mateba"

That claim is way too false I am in complete awe that you would even say it. 4 MPs were standing there, including the CMP himself with his pistol out. You run over to the fucking MP about to be executed, take him off the chair, and then say that this is illegal. We argue for about 30 seconds, I order you to be arrested, after everyone says to put him back on the chair because you are holding us up, then pull out a random flashbang, flash the room, pull out your taser, start tasing some of us then run off with him.

That alone is a major rule break. MPs cannot do that against the CO.... you just flashbanged him and ran off. I chase you down, shoot both the person you were dragging off (Tanner) and you, and it was all over.

The only low RP I saw here was you, running infront of everyone with a pistol out, when ready to execute, flashbang the room, run off, after arguing that it was illegal after such a long moment.

The only "Rule" I can see I have broken was ALMOST partaking inside the execution, which is not even major, and at that, I didn't even partake in it in the first place. Even a mod said it was fine. Do with that, as you will.

Edit: Forgot to add, you not only flashbanged me, but the ENTIRE MP force including the CMP and me, the CO. Then you tased some of your fellow MPs, and ran off. Just wanted to add that, I was not about to execute him myself, when half of the fucking MP force was sitting there with their pistols out. I was going to give the order to execute him when you interrupted and took him off the chair.
feweh Announces:
DEAD: Max Terry says, "FEWEH NOTICE ME!!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0gGWRnoFDI
__________________________________________________
*Dreams mode.... accomplished*-Max Terry
*Getting unfriended on steam by feweh for reasons....* rustarus: If you like pineapple on your pizza I sware to god... I will hate you slightly. But only slightly. Feweh is now offline
When Max Terry is tired (Yes this happened) You hear a voice in your head... Maybe you should tone it down a bit, you seem to be annoying the other marines
*When Max Terry is captured* Young Runner (298) hisses, "*u*k **u **oo Max Terry yells, "FUUUCK YOU!" Max Terry says, "FUCK"
*What everyone thinks of Max Terry* https://youtu.be/eOl_oWxNFrs?t=1185

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Feweh » 22 Sep 2017, 16:08

I have some questions.

Challenger, why was it such an issue for the CO to do the execution? If the CMP wasn't objecting him to participate, why did it matter?

Rust, why did you take it into your hands to chase them down and execute them both when you have 4 MPs and the CMP near you?

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Rustarus » 22 Sep 2017, 16:14

Feweh wrote:
22 Sep 2017, 16:08

Rust, why did you take it into your hands to chase them down and execute them both when you have 4 MPs and the CMP near you?
I did it because I was the first to get up, Ellen was already in the maint shaft by the time I got up, last thing I would want is to let her AND the person to be executed to get away just because I have to wait for the MPs to get up. I took it into my own hands, being the first one to get to the maint shaft.
feweh Announces:
DEAD: Max Terry says, "FEWEH NOTICE ME!!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0gGWRnoFDI
__________________________________________________
*Dreams mode.... accomplished*-Max Terry
*Getting unfriended on steam by feweh for reasons....* rustarus: If you like pineapple on your pizza I sware to god... I will hate you slightly. But only slightly. Feweh is now offline
When Max Terry is tired (Yes this happened) You hear a voice in your head... Maybe you should tone it down a bit, you seem to be annoying the other marines
*When Max Terry is captured* Young Runner (298) hisses, "*u*k **u **oo Max Terry yells, "FUUUCK YOU!" Max Terry says, "FUCK"
*What everyone thinks of Max Terry* https://youtu.be/eOl_oWxNFrs?t=1185

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Sir Lordington » 22 Sep 2017, 17:24

Allow me to give my side of the story, mostly because one of the points this hinges on is me allowing to the execution, which is not exactly true. I will skip to the part in the execution chamber, as I have nothing to add on the events before. I was the CMP, and initially, it is true that I did not see anything wrong with the execution. Indeed, I was prepared to participate myself until Ellen started talking. At that point, I realised that this was indeed technically a battlefield execution from the announcement the commander made, as I had only said the prisoner was to be prepared, but never made a formal request to the commander or even spoke to him directly about it. Therefore, I changed my mind, the prisoner could not be executed by the CO as it stood.

It was aat this point that I tried to defuse the situation by legalizing the situation. I immediately requested an execution from the commander, who granted it. I then told him to make a new announcement, as the former pertained to a battlefield execution, since he made it before I requested the execution and was not authorising an execution via MP firing squad, but ordering one. Whatever the case, unless a new announcement was made, neither the CO nor the MPs were able to legally execute the prisoner. Max did not respond to my request for a new announcement and instead opted to to continue ordering Ellen to move for him to execute the prisoner. It was at this point that she threw down the flashbang. Regrettably, it exploded with me right on top of me, and as soon as I got up, Ellen tased me so by the time I got up again both her and Felix were dead.

Overall, were the executions of both MPs legal? As it happened, I am inclined to believe so, although he did execute Ellen for doing her duty, she did flashbang him and tase two other MPs and fled with a prisoner. Did Max Terry comport himself appropriately? No. He was going to execute a prisoner in an illegal manner. Had he executed the prisoner himself, it would've been illegal because he would have battlefield executed a prisoner in custody. We did have an unknown lifeform on the ship in the last bioscan which is something that I considered initially, however, no incidents had been reported for a good 10 minutes and no lifeforms had been found, furthermore we were on blue alert and not red, which made me lean towards the idea of the execution being unlawful. Had the MPs executed the prisoner it would have been illegal as well, since this was a battlefield execution. If anything, I believe Ellen is the one least at fault here, since she acted decisively to protect the prisoner. I would say this is greatly my fault for not realising the execution was unlawful and for not acting more decisively to stop the execution once I realised it, and on Max Terry for improper execution procedure by attempting to either a) have a prisoner battlefield executed via firing squad, making it very seem like a legal, regular execution or b) Battlefield executing a prisoner in custody himself.

That said, do I think there was any malicious intent? No. Perhaps too much of an urge by the commander to use the Mateba on something, supported by the fact that it was all modded, and too much indecisiveness on my part when handling the commander themselves and maybe too much decisiveness on the part of Digitalis with that flashbang escape.
I used to play Luke Compton. Now I play Reginald Dempsey.

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Rustarus » 22 Sep 2017, 17:34

Sir Lordington wrote:
22 Sep 2017, 17:24

No. He was going to execute a prisoner in an illegal manner. Had he executed the prisoner himself, it would've been illegal because he would have battlefield executed a prisoner in custody.
And I owned up to that. I even said it in my post. I fucked up at that part, even ahelped to see if it was okay to participate, and the mod said it was an IC issue. None the less, I did not hear you say to make another announcement, and it would not have been needed. You say that you were going to participate, then just say "Oh, I decided to put my gun away while nobody noticed and decided to opt out while everyone else was shouting at Ellen to get away from the fucking person being executed" isn't right in my opinion. None the less, I do agree, I fucked up, but I feel as if Ellen fucked up more by flashing the whole entire room, and then tazing the CMP and another MP.
Edit: Apparently I CAN participate according to Feweh! What a relief, now I see nothing I did wrong!
Last edited by Rustarus on 22 Sep 2017, 17:38, edited 1 time in total.
feweh Announces:
DEAD: Max Terry says, "FEWEH NOTICE ME!!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0gGWRnoFDI
__________________________________________________
*Dreams mode.... accomplished*-Max Terry
*Getting unfriended on steam by feweh for reasons....* rustarus: If you like pineapple on your pizza I sware to god... I will hate you slightly. But only slightly. Feweh is now offline
When Max Terry is tired (Yes this happened) You hear a voice in your head... Maybe you should tone it down a bit, you seem to be annoying the other marines
*When Max Terry is captured* Young Runner (298) hisses, "*u*k **u **oo Max Terry yells, "FUUUCK YOU!" Max Terry says, "FUCK"
*What everyone thinks of Max Terry* https://youtu.be/eOl_oWxNFrs?t=1185

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Feweh » 22 Sep 2017, 17:36

Heres the thing.

1. The fact that the prisoner was cuffed, inside the execution chamber and at this point ready to be executed.... Makes the intent and by all means execution.... A PROPER EXECUTION. CO announced it over COMs, the Prisoner was in the Execution room and the intent to execute him was being made IN THE PROPER ROOM and FOLLOWED proper execution procedures.

From an OOC perspective at this point, IT WAS A LEGALLY FOLLOWED EXECUTION.

2. Ellen being battlefield execute is completely warranted. Tasing, stunning and grabbing the prisoner out on their own is just all kinds of wrong. Especially with the CMP clearly stating above they were present and able to make the decisions on their own.


All of this is an IC ISSUE.
The Commander followed proper execution procedures and no one protested till the very end. Had someone said something about it not being a good idea prior to the prisoner and the commander being in the execution area... we'd have a problem.

Let me lay it out this way.

1. Commander announced the execution - CMP didn't say anything against it at this point.
2. MPs set the Prisoner up to be executed in the Execution chamber - No one had any issues with this.
3. CO prepared and said he was going to participate in the shooting - CMP never said no or had an issue.
4. SUDDENLY, both the CMP and Elen had an issue with all this - Elen took matters into her own hands, was rightfully executed for it on the spot.

OOCly and rule wise... procedures were followed.
ICly, things went bad.

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Challenger » 22 Sep 2017, 20:45

I think there needs to be some clarification regarding the matter of this report. Especially without the logs being present here, all three of us witnesses are operating off slightly faulty memories as to what happened and possibly leaving out details. Anyway.

"Why was it an issue for the CO to do the execution?"

In Marine Law there is the line "Authorized methods of execution are either Firing Squad (handled by MPs) or Lethal Injection (handled by CMO)". The Commander can not be part of a firing squad.

The way I see it the difference between a "just" execution (by MPs) and an "unjust" execution (by CO/MPs+CO) was important IC and OOC. Before the Commander walked into the room, I believed that there was going to be a proper execution by MPs as the CMP was ordering it and an announcement had been made. I couldn't realize the CO was fully serious about personally executing the prisoner instead of just watching as procedure dictates, until he rushed the prisoner through the steps of last words then asked/made everyone clear away from his personal firing lane (he was 3 tiles southsoutheast of the buckled prisoner). At this point I was the only MP (?) in the firing range (at least the only one actually saying or doing anything) so I move to block the CO's shot of the prisoner and argue that I could not permit what he was doing. So from the moment the CO was serious about executing the prisoner, I had an issue with what he was doing going by marine law, which counters feweh's point (3) that no one had an issue with his participation.

I don't remember exactly what was said or done, but at some point I was being forced to move and the Commander was still standing there trying to get a clear shot on the prisoner, which is why I unbuckled the prisoner and moved him to the corner of the room, blocking his body with my own. Rustarus claims there were four MPs ready to join the execution, but the CO from my perspective had made no indication that other MPs were going to participate as I initially certainly didn't see a firing lane form up or any kind of coordination or communication regarding that at all. Even the CMP (mistakenly) also believed almost the whole time that it was going to be a battlefield execution carried out by the CO, so he certainly wouldn't have thought there was an MP firing lane. When I was forced away from the corner by a Commander still toting his handgun and giving a countdown for me to move, there were ultimately two reasons for me to prevent the execution, since it was either:

- A battlefield execution of a prisoner in MP custody, so I had to protect the prisoner
- An illegal execution (due to a non-MP in the firing line constantly trying to shoot someone), so I had to prevent this crime from being committed

At this moment I was forced to deploy the flashbang because none of other MPs/CMP were actually attempting to resolve the two situations described and to try to buy time to salvage the situation by moving the prisoner.

To wrap things up, I definitely personally enjoyed this round, including the short-lived chaos, drama and death of it all. But the CO still broke roleplay guidelines and rules on use of force throughout it all.
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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Rustarus » 22 Sep 2017, 20:54

I still, have no idea if I can fucking partake in the bloody firing squad. Feweh says I can, everyone else says no. The way you are trying to make it seem, is that you are glorifying yourself acting like I did something wrong with trying to get you out of the fucking way of the whole entire firing squad. I was trying to do this formally, then you run infront of EVERYONE, and drag him into a corner. I was telling a countdown for you to be arrested, which I clearly said "Just taze her" while everyone else was yelling at you to move. None the less, it WAS NOT A FUCKING BATTLEFIELD EXECUTION. I do not see how you see that's what it was. You do not formally announce that it is a battlefield execution before executing them. If you some how did not see that there were about 4 MPs with pistols out waiting for my command to shoot... I really don't know what to say. I have no idea what the fuck you're reporting me for. The only thing I see that I did wrong was that I tried partaking in a normal execution, which I SITLL don't know if I can or not because I am getting mixed answers!

Edit: I was still sitting there with my gun out because I was about to give the order to shoot, after just getting done arguing with you LOOCly saying I cannot partake. You're basically telling me I was doing something wrong because I gave a countdown for you to move before I gave you the order to be detained by the other MPs. You took that as a countdown... of.... I still don't fucking know because you said "I was blocking the way for him to shoot" so I guess you thought I was going to execute YOU? I'm just so confused and don't know what to defend myself for, because you are nabbing at the most small things that don't need defending!
feweh Announces:
DEAD: Max Terry says, "FEWEH NOTICE ME!!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0gGWRnoFDI
__________________________________________________
*Dreams mode.... accomplished*-Max Terry
*Getting unfriended on steam by feweh for reasons....* rustarus: If you like pineapple on your pizza I sware to god... I will hate you slightly. But only slightly. Feweh is now offline
When Max Terry is tired (Yes this happened) You hear a voice in your head... Maybe you should tone it down a bit, you seem to be annoying the other marines
*When Max Terry is captured* Young Runner (298) hisses, "*u*k **u **oo Max Terry yells, "FUUUCK YOU!" Max Terry says, "FUCK"
*What everyone thinks of Max Terry* https://youtu.be/eOl_oWxNFrs?t=1185

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Challenger » 22 Sep 2017, 21:03

You weren't trying to battlefield execute the prisoner, just to regularly execute him, I can agree. However you set it up such that you were part of the firing squad, which would be illegal. A mod telling you it's an "IC issue" means you won't get banned for it (COs breaking the law is usually not banworthy, but handled by MPs/high command).

So then you do something you know is illegal, an MP stops you, you shoot the MP for doing so. Bad escalation.
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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Rustarus » 22 Sep 2017, 21:45

The mod said that I can partake in it. Feweh said I can partake in it (Sorta? as an IC issue.I'll take the warning but I don't exactly see how "Ban, dewhitelist from CO, or warn. Overall the issue is of low roleplay and griefing." and, "He tried partaking in an execution, that must be a low level of RP and griefing." match up. See the problem?
Last edited by Rustarus on 23 Sep 2017, 12:41, edited 1 time in total.
feweh Announces:
DEAD: Max Terry says, "FEWEH NOTICE ME!!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0gGWRnoFDI
__________________________________________________
*Dreams mode.... accomplished*-Max Terry
*Getting unfriended on steam by feweh for reasons....* rustarus: If you like pineapple on your pizza I sware to god... I will hate you slightly. But only slightly. Feweh is now offline
When Max Terry is tired (Yes this happened) You hear a voice in your head... Maybe you should tone it down a bit, you seem to be annoying the other marines
*When Max Terry is captured* Young Runner (298) hisses, "*u*k **u **oo Max Terry yells, "FUUUCK YOU!" Max Terry says, "FUCK"
*What everyone thinks of Max Terry* https://youtu.be/eOl_oWxNFrs?t=1185

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Tornadium » 22 Sep 2017, 22:06

Just to weigh in as one of the other MPs in the room.

You (in my opinion) were kind of just being a dick for the sake of it. This is directed at Challenger not Rustarus.

You repeatedly :

1. Claimed the commander did not authorize the execution when it infarct had been authorized long before we ever got to the execution room.

2. Demanded the prisoner get the right to last words, Then when last words were given started standing in the firing line demanding he get a second and third "last words" despite the prisoner himself telling you to just let us shoot him.

On the topic of battlefield executions, it has been the set precedent that if you fuck with the CO/disobey his orders and just necessarily make a nuisance of yourself the CO can execute you without regard for escalation rules. This is a special circumstance only for the CO. I think flashbanging and tasing MPs and senior officers as well as attempting to free a prisoner sentenced to death is a reasonable reason for Battlefield Execution, especially when compared to some of the flimsy reasons i have personally seen in the past.

Edit : You also claimed that a firing squad hadn't been appointed and a few other things, All of which were false. Like you seemed to be bitching about literally everything you could think of in relation to the execution.

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Rustarus » 22 Sep 2017, 22:50

Tornadium wrote:
22 Sep 2017, 22:06
-snip-
Finally someone who vividly understands my situation, and some how explained it better than I have. Lmfao.
feweh Announces:
DEAD: Max Terry says, "FEWEH NOTICE ME!!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0gGWRnoFDI
__________________________________________________
*Dreams mode.... accomplished*-Max Terry
*Getting unfriended on steam by feweh for reasons....* rustarus: If you like pineapple on your pizza I sware to god... I will hate you slightly. But only slightly. Feweh is now offline
When Max Terry is tired (Yes this happened) You hear a voice in your head... Maybe you should tone it down a bit, you seem to be annoying the other marines
*When Max Terry is captured* Young Runner (298) hisses, "*u*k **u **oo Max Terry yells, "FUUUCK YOU!" Max Terry says, "FUCK"
*What everyone thinks of Max Terry* https://youtu.be/eOl_oWxNFrs?t=1185

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Challenger » 22 Sep 2017, 22:55

Rustarus, as I've said already most of the low RP in that round is from you going out of your way to mateba people, from joining a manhunt against an MP who had nothing to do with you, to immediately trying to insert yourself into their execution, to battlefield executing both of us, and having your mateba even modded in the first place. Nothing individually too damning but taken as a whole your actions throughout the round mostly seem to have occured out of an ooc desire to get to shoot a marine.

Tornadium,

1. I hadn't gotten to hear the initial execution announcement, so I didn't initially concern myself with it. I was going to either scroll back up to confirm it was there or ask another MP if it happened. I didn't claim that there was no announcement until the CMP Compton said it, which is when I started using it as an argument since I believed the CMP when he said it.

2. I don't recall ever telling the CO to give the prisoner more chances for last words, you might've overheard someone else or something. I don't know why I'd say that either, I was clearly trying to stop the CO executing him not move through the process by checking off the last words tickbox.

Edit reply: I don't recall arguing the firing squad wasn't appointed, though it, definitely wasn't at the time of the CO trying to immediately kill the prisoner by rushing him through last words.

Part of the confusion of the whole event is stemming from the CO essentially causing chaos in the brig ICly by constantly trying to rush the process so he could test out his fancy new gun. It was his conscious decision to make to keep arguing in the execution room and be moments away from shooting the prisoner, which affected the rest of the talks and ties into the whole low RP thing. You can't reasonably talk about the finer details of who's allowed to do what and the CMP's permissions and such when you're at the last step of the execution and trying to get someone to move so you can execute a guy. Especially with a large amount of officers and MPs all bickering amongst each other and looc spam.
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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Tornadium » 22 Sep 2017, 23:01

To be completely honest,

A gung-ho Commander with a thirst for blood is one of the least concerning low rp issues I've seen for Marine COs.

Just saying.

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Rustarus » 22 Sep 2017, 23:09

God damn it, it was just about to become civil again. Now back to arguing already. I was trying to rush the process because I was fucking taking so much time out of the CiC that it was worrying me. All the LOOC bickering was fucking the whole situation up even more, and I wanted to just hurry up and get this execution over with because there were 3-4 xenos left, and if we execute the guy after round end, we would have fucked up.

The only thing I still see I did wrong here was about to partake in the god damn fucking execution. And keep in mind, this was my FIRST execution yet, so cut me some slack. I didn't expect an MP to start flashbanging the whole entire fucking room and start tazing people.

The way I see it, is that you just dislike me as a CO, wanted to push me to my limits, then get me job banned from it. And I already know what you're thinking, "OH NO WAY! I would never, I don't dislike you in any way!" but the reason why someone would interrupt the whole entire execution, then run off with the guy, and then report me for killing you does seem a bit fucked up to me, but that's just my opinion.

I'll accept the partaking in the execution, which I didn't even have a chance to do, and a mod said it was fine, IF that is even warn worthy, but besides that... I see nowhere this report is going to go besides degrading of relationships.

Edit: Feweh already said that me ALMOST partaking in it was an IC issue, along with a mod. So there is legit nothing this report is about anymore.
Last edited by Rustarus on 23 Sep 2017, 12:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Lauren Von Fusegana » 23 Sep 2017, 02:30

Speaking as the CL during this whole ordeal, I can say that Max was in the right on this. He followed proper procedures and such, and he remained in character throughout the whole time as a CO in a justifiable military sense.

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by NGGJamie » 24 Sep 2017, 08:25

► Show Spoiler
Logs related between Rustarus and Digitalis.
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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Challenger » 24 Sep 2017, 11:25

I'm hoping the reason you believe I made this report out of a metagrudge is because I failed to explain myself clearly enough. I didn't want you whitelisted in the first place, and I find that the events in this report are an ooc problem, but I don't otherwise at all have a problem with you, I've played with you for two rounds since this report as CMP to your CO (Judea Bynes) and one round as SL to your spec (Henry Arago) if that influences your personal opinion about how I've interacted with you in general.

Anyway, to keep breaking down the situation as to why this is report worthy...

- You trying to do something illegal is OK. Absolutely an IC issue, COs can break the law.
- You trying to do something illegal, then executing the person who is duty-bound to prevent it, isn't OK.

Like, as an analogy, think of a Commander who goes around blatantly and constantly drinking alcohol from a bottle. That's a crime, drinking on duty. If an MP saw the commander do this and the commander refused to stop, they wouldn't arrest the commander on the spot, but they would have to stop the crime from being committed. Asking them to pass the bottle, stripping it off their hand, MAYBE disarming it from the CO. If the MP used a reasonable amount of force to stop the crime, then it'd be very lowrp of the CO to battlefield execute the MP for doing it.

Tying the analogy into the events that happened, we have the CO attempting to commit murder on a marine, as they're not legally cleared to be part of the firing line. So it's reasonable of an MP to, with all other options exhausted, stun everyone in the room to prevent the Commander from murdering someone, since none of the other MPs are preventing it, the CMP has no idea what the fuck's going on, and the CO is about to order that MP arrested and unable to prevent it. So then if the CO shoots the MP, that's the same level of low rp. They attempted to commit a crime, were prevented from doing it with a reasonable amount of force (temporary nonlethal stun to prevent murder), and then instantly chased down and killed the MP and their cuffed, orangeclothed prisoner.

The logs as they're presented so far show us a few things:
- The CO clearly kept implying/saying he was going to shoot the prisoner, with his last statement to the effect being, "[11:39:34]SAY: Max Terry/Rustarus : I'll be shooting him in the foot", which is a minute before he starts ordering me to move. The entire time he was in the brig he had his handgun out and was near the prisoner.
- I said " [11:39:36]SAY: Ellen Rahal/Digitalis : He can give another set of last words." because someone else said something along the lines of "we HAVE to execute him now, he already gave last words"
- I said "[11:40:40]SAY: Ellen Rahal/Digitalis : Not with an announcement, and not with a firing squad.", accidentally leaving out the "without" part in "not without", since at this point the CMP told me there wasn't even an announcement of the execution - aka don't execute the guy without an announcement and firing squad.
- So the additional player logs we need for the full story are the CMP Luke Compton, since he was confused as fuck the entire time but kept talking which confused everyone else and caused more chaos. Which should put more context into the logs already provided, and possibly MP Power's and MP Tanner's logs since I'm seen replying to Power early in the logs, and Tanner might've said something relevant. in addition, we need LOOC logs of Rustarus, Digitalis, and Luke Compton since we were talking over that channel during the middle of the attempted execution.

What pushed me over the edge of just keeping this IC (because it was an enjoyable round overall) versus making a player report out of it is that the CO was:
- Leaving the CIC just to personally chase down and then later personally execute a rogue MP with whom he had 0 prior interaction with. While that can be decent RP to me it really, really smelled of you wanting your mateba kills OOCly and shoehorning some halfassed RP into it. Even after the two BEs when the queen was on the Almayer you went and charged her alone just to shoot her with your mateba, then constantly got nested and kept trying to run straight for the mateba without unnesting the (healthy) people next to you.
- Being ignorant of/not giving a shit about marine law when breaking it in that specific case could've been considered murder, solely because you wanted to shoot a guy there who would've died anyway.
- LOOC spam, you spammed looc in the execution chamber, and especially tried to convince everyone over looc around you that "ic issue" means you were allowed to do it ICly which added to the confusion.

Taken as a whole, not what the rules demand of COs, which is why I made the report.

Finally I'd like to nominate myself for worst one-liner of the year.
[11:33:11]SAY: Ellen Rahal/Digitalis : You must be that unknown lifeform on the ship, because you mean nothing to me now.
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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Feweh » 24 Sep 2017, 12:11

[11:36:57]SAY: Ellen Rahal/Digitalis : Power, we're executing him for fucking us all. He refused to follow orders and it went into making death threats with a clear intent to murder.

[11:40:40]SAY: Ellen Rahal/Digitalis : Not with an announcement, and not with a firing squad

[11:32:13]SAY: Rustarus/(Max Terry) has made Command Announcement: Command Announcement - Attention please. MP Felix Tanner is to be executed via firing squad for murder, insubordination, neglect of duty and hooliganism.


Ya you contradict yourself at least twice here, this was a legal execution. OOC procedure was follower.

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Challenger » 24 Sep 2017, 12:17

We were trying to attempt a legal execution, the problem was the CO constantly trying to illegally be a part of it and shoot the prisoner himself which would've been the crime of murder.

This was an IC issue, when I prevented him doing it he mateba'd me. Attempt to do something illegal then when an MP prevents you from doing it, kill them. OOC issue.

The reason I claim there wasn't an announcement is because the CMP said that and I believed them since I wasn't about to scroll back up through 8 minutes of logs while everyone was arguing.
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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Chaznoodles » 24 Sep 2017, 12:21

Relevant section from marine law, regarding executions (not battlefield);

Image

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Re: [digitalis] reporting [Rustarus] for low RP and griefing with lethal force as Commander.

Post by Feweh » 24 Sep 2017, 12:55

The CO participating in the firing squad is an IC issue, not OOC.

The CO killing Elen and the Prisoner was legit, as you kidnapped the prisoner, flash-banged your fellow MPS and ran off.

Resolved.

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