Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

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Sir Lordington
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Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Sir Lordington » 08 Oct 2017, 11:59

Your Byond Key: Sirlordington

Your Character Name: Luke 'PewPew' Compton

Accused Byond Key(if known): Chaznoodles

Character Name: Marcellus Mason

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): 16:50

What rule(s) were broken: 0.2, Marine Specific Rule 6

Description of the incident: The Chief Medical officer made some peridaxon and placed it on the smartfridge for doctors to have easy access to. Mind you, this peridaxon was not for medics to take. It was not approved by the CMO to be distributed to medics. Two medics show up and grab it from the fridge, so a call is made for their arrest. They both get arrested and somewhere along the line the XO decides to get involved in this arrest he has nothing to do with. While I'm trying to resolve the situation, the CO gets involved and then the CE and a PO start butting in as well. I apply the age old "just because you can doesn't mean you should" adage, along with the CMO's declarations and determine that taking those meds was reason for arrest. Then the CO decides to grant them release on appeals, appeals he hasn't even listened to, but I do not object since by that time their timers are basically up, so they get released.

As they are leaving, I tell one of the medics to leave the chemicals he took in the brig. He says no and runs away, so I chase him down and arrest him for insubordination. Now some SO that had NOTHING to do with anything, LT. Ishmael Stonearacka decides he's going to play MP as well and tells me I cannot brig that medic, then grabs the prisoner and runs away with them, so I tase them down and prepare to arrest them for Interfering with an Arrest. Now the XO shakes the LT up as I'm trying to cuff him, therefore interfering with the arrest as well, supposedly because it's a false arrest, which is not his place to determine. I try to rearrest the SO as he runs and get tased down by MP Sidonius Alchane. I ahelp it and Jay Burns tells me he's keeping it IC unless they brig me for bullshit charges.

I get brigged and told that I'll be brigged until the receive a response from the fax, which is unlawful, so I ahelp again. Then the charges keep changing every time I ask, so I notify Jay of the changing charges and eventually I get released by admins. As soon as I get out, the CO and MPs decide to wait and see what happens, but the XO orders everyone to disregard what ARES said about me being released and having been arrested on false charges and tells them to brig me again, so I retaliate by ordering him to be arrested due to his interference with the SO's arrest. As the XO is being brigged a fax comes in saying I am to be arrested and removed from my position. Then the aliens arrive and I get released to fight.

Overall, the situation was a mess. I've been thinking long and hard about wether to make a report and Alchane, Stonearacka and Mason all acted questionably. However, it is Mason that first decided to act like an MP, getting involved in cases that had nothing to do with him and then outright decided that it was he who determined what constitutes a false arrest and how MPs should enforce the law, then decided to outright interfere with MPs doing their jobs and basically took control of the department acting as if he was the CMP, and had me brigged for, apparently, false arrest, which could not be applied as I did not order the arrests. At the very least this is VERY low RP (breach of the "reasonable person" RP guideline) by getting involved in arrests that have nothing to do with him, if not an outright breach of Marine specific Rule 6 as he started enforcing Marine Law by declaring arrests unlawful and interfering with arrests in progress.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): I have logs up to my arrest https://pastebin.com/zaDS8Afj . I tried to take logs later but the text had scrolled by due to the aliens boarding.

How you would punish the accused: XO/Command ban. He clearly believes that command oversees the MPs in their enforcement of the law and have authority to override them, and it's not the first time he's played CMP 2.0 when playing as XO.
I used to play Luke Compton.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by DadLantern » 08 Oct 2017, 21:26

I was Stonearacka. I was just following orders. We knew that stealing meds was not okay, but we conversed in command chat and decided that it would be good just to let him off. So we came down and told you to get him out. Then I don't remember what happened afterwards, I accidentally shot a guy, etc.

It was a mess. The word 'False Arrest' was the wrong word to use. Rather, 'letting off with a warning' or something was what we meant and was used in full intent.

I wholly disagree with the term of 'low rp.' even though the situation was indeed a mess, I believe it was RP'd well by both you, the MPs, and us. It's a miracle that it was resolved ICly without direct admin input/punishments right there and then.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by shyshadow » 08 Oct 2017, 21:32

Man, what a round that was. I was the Commander for that round and I don't think anyone deserves a ban. It was handled through IC means and I think it's fine the way it was. As the Commander of the Almayer it was at my discretion of what happened. I could've field executed you, a handful of time. I know though that would be unfair and unfun way to leave things.

The XO didn't butt into the situation, know why? Because it's his job to care about the damn field medics. He obviously didn't want them to be in the brig as much as any caring CO. He butted in because we were losing good marines, because we lacked them. When you said "The CO accepts the appeal without looking into it" because I don't give a damn about what happened, it was a petty crime. We need them so yes let them go.

Then you have the AUDACITY, to arrest one of them again? When for something you should've removed from their person before you even brigged them in the first place. Yet you hadn't so, for all intended purposes you hadn't followed protocol I could've demoted you for that but I didn't care. Even if they didn't listen, you're actively intervening with the sake of the operation. Hindering our process, you are the judge of the law and it's at your discretion in which laws can be bent to better benefit not only the operation but everyone's life.
You can be by the book, or you don't. But considering your situation I'm not sure why you thought arresting a field medic twice was a good thing.

In all, I don't think anyone deserves a ban. It was a cluster-fuck of a mess that resulted in no ones death. No one got hurt, it was quite literally all an IC issue. Also he did not in any case preform "Low-RP" did he shoot you? No, did he just do something no living human would do? No.




In all. THIS IS AN IC ISSUE
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Sir Lordington
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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Sir Lordington » 09 Oct 2017, 06:27

Dadlantern:
If someone orders you to interfere with an arrest, you don't. You don't have to follow unlawful orders. False Arrest was the charge levied onto me, more on that later.

Skyshadow:
First off, saying you could've field executed isn't an argument and doesn't have a point. Please don't talk to me like you did me a favour by not removing me from the round for doing my job, I find it rather condescending. You also could've field executed the XO. You could've field executed everyone.

Now, to your other points. I did not process the medics, therefore, I could not have removed the drugs. That is why I told him to give them back. He refused and ran. That is insubordination, no two ways about it. Is it audacity to arrest someone for insubordination? No. Does the Commander having granted them an appeal on their previous crime grant them immunity to further crimes? no. Arrest was lawful and I was within my rights to make it. The XO, on the other hand, did butt in. Yes, he cares about the op. Enough to physically intefere with an arrest? No. An architect wouldn't stop a policeman from arresting some workers because "they're important for the project". He might complain, and do everything in his power to get them free, but he would NOT physically try to stop the arrest.

As you said yourself, you can be by the book. That is the character I play. Someone who enforces the law at all times, no exceptions, no matter how "important" you are to the op. I thought arresting the medic twice was a good idea because he broke the law twice, plain and simple. Is this unreasonable? To some characters from an IC perspective, maybe, he might seem like a fanatical enforcer of the law. Is it allowed? Yes.

But frankly, what I don't think is or should be allowed is the XO showing up, taking over the security department, acting as CMP 2.0 and getting the actual CMP arrested on bogus charges. In fact, the admin handling the issue told me it would be kept IC "unless the charges were bullshit". Well, they were bullshit, so it should not be IC anymore. Beyond the fact that nobody knew what I was arrested for, and I was wordlessly thrown into a cell without being read the charges (improper MP procedure, by the by), and even though the charges kept changing, the one charge that was consistent across all versions (beyond the dumb "you're here until we get response" which is not even lawful) wwas the False Arrest charge. Now, if we take a trip to the wiki, we see that False Arrest is "To order the arrest of a Marine who is then found to be innocent. Does NOT stack with Conduct Unbecoming of an Officer". How could I have been convicted of false arrest when: 1. No one was proven innocent. 2. I did not order the arrests, the CMO did.

So no, I don't see how taking over a department that's supposed to be independent of the command structure in its operation (IE the enforcement of the law) and getting the CMP arrested on false charges is an IC issue, especially since the admin handling the issue said it would be IC "unless the charges were bullshit", which they were, as I have just explained.
I used to play Luke Compton.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by shyshadow » 09 Oct 2017, 09:45

Okay... Well I mean alright. Don't want to argue, just let by-gones be by-gones. In my defense a lot of things were described different from other's perspective. But you have to accept that being by the book has IC consequences, if every round was continuous it'd matter but it doesn't as much.

I just dont want some guy getting job banned for something so debatable.
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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Chaznoodles » 09 Oct 2017, 12:57

Aight, here we go lads
Sir Lordington wrote:
08 Oct 2017, 11:59
Description of the incident: The Chief Medical officer made some peridaxon and placed it on the smartfridge for doctors to have easy access to. Mind you, this peridaxon was not for medics to take. It was not approved by the CMO to be distributed to medics. Two medics show up and grab it from the fridge, so a call is made for their arrest. They both get arrested and somewhere along the line the XO decides to get involved in this arrest he has nothing to do with. While I'm trying to resolve the situation, the CO gets involved and then the CE and a PO start butting in as well. I apply the age old "just because you can doesn't mean you should" adage, along with the CMO's declarations and determine that taking those meds was reason for arrest. Then the CO decides to grant them release on appeals, appeals he hasn't even listened to, but I do not object since by that time their timers are basically up, so they get released.
As far as I was aware throughout this entire debacle, the CO had authorised peri and the CMO had not said they denied it. The smartfridge is (was, now!) accessible by medics, and is where the chems made by doctors are placed if they are to be used by medics. This is common knowledge. I remember hearing the CMO calling for MPs to medbay, so I pinged the MPs over the MP channel and left them to it, assuming it was just marines being rowdy. I get informed, five minutes or so later, that three medics are in the Brig for having peridaxon. Knowing this was authorised by the CO and the CMO hadn't said a word about it, I head on down. Chatting to the three medics, I find out none of them had been told the chemicals in the smartfridge were not to be taken by them, nor that peridaxon was off-limits, nor had they been asked to return it prior to the arrest. I explain this to the CO after my usual complaining about overzealous MPs, he advises me to tell the marines in the cells to make appeals which he'll authorise. I do so, they all appeal. Problem solved, I start to head back up to the CIC to resume my duties.
Sir Lordington wrote:
08 Oct 2017, 11:59
As they are leaving, I tell one of the medics to leave the chemicals he took in the brig. He says no and runs away, so I chase him down and arrest him for insubordination. Now some SO that had NOTHING to do with anything, LT. Ishmael Stonearacka decides he's going to play MP as well and tells me I cannot brig that medic, then grabs the prisoner and runs away with them, so I tase them down and prepare to arrest them for Interfering with an Arrest. Now the XO shakes the LT up as I'm trying to cuff him, therefore interfering with the arrest as well, supposedly because it's a false arrest, which is not his place to determine. I try to rearrest the SO as he runs and get tased down by MP Sidonius Alchane. I ahelp it and Jay Burns tells me he's keeping it IC unless they brig me for bullshit charges.
Here's where the issue started. If you had confiscated the meds when the arrests had been made as is procedure, it'd all have been fine. However, as soon as I get up the Brig ladder to the CIC - not even getting through the CIC door - the medic who is being rearrested notifies me. Stonearacka is already down there so I head on back down. I find Stonearacka placing himself bodily between the CMP and the rearrested medic and asking the CMP to, long story short, stop being a mong. The CMP proceeds to tase the SO. At this point, I get involved, shake the SO up, and ask what the absolute dicks is going on. The CMP starts shouting about not getting involved in MP affairs. I laugh. Stonearacka gets up and heads left, presumably to get away from the CMP. The CMP chases. I ask Alchane to detain the CMP and he does so, while I call for the Commander to come down and resolve the situation.

I uncuff the medic and shoo them off, telling them to get planetside and help marines. Terrance, another MP, blocks my way and says they'll arrest me if I do so. I stare them down and open the door for the medic. He jogs off, I get tased, Terrance tosses me in a cell. By this point, the Commander is talking to the CMP, and writing a fax. I walk out the cell because improper procedure conducted by the MP, and get tased and tossed back in.
Sir Lordington wrote:
08 Oct 2017, 11:59
I get brigged and told that I'll be brigged until the receive a response from the fax, which is unlawful, so I ahelp again. Then the charges keep changing every time I ask, so I notify Jay of the changing charges and eventually I get released by admins. As soon as I get out, the CO and MPs decide to wait and see what happens, but the XO orders everyone to disregard what ARES said about me being released and having been arrested on false charges and tells them to brig me again, so I retaliate by ordering him to be arrested due to his interference with the SO's arrest. As the XO is being brigged a fax comes in saying I am to be arrested and removed from my position. Then the aliens arrive and I get released to fight.
Fax gets sent, we chuck the CMP into a cell until the fax gets answered, which we assumed would be promptly due to the number of staff online. We were hugely wrong. I get released from my cell, due to the situation. The CMP is screeching about this all being unlawful and shouting at MPs to arrest Stonearacka and I for insubordination, we don't order his headset removed because he's pretty harmless in a cell. Terrance makes a move to and gets browbeaten by me, standing down eventually. To stop the CMP whining, I declare the charges to be six stacked charges of false arrests - which, looking back and at the definition of false arrests, would've been two false arrests and repeated counts of insubordination/assault. At this point, I get a PM from Jay Burns - I believe - asking about the charges. I respond, detailing the situation and his orders to arrest me from his cell. He informs me to tell him if the CMP tries to have me arrested out of spite when he gets released. I wander back up to the CIC and take the helm as the Commander is busy with Price the MP, who wants to resign over this whole debacle. Whilst in the CIC, an ARES message comes through saying that the CMP's arrest was false and I'm to be arrested.

This is where another problem arises; the lack of staff response to the earlier fax, and the apparent ignorance of the situation. The ARES message seemed to come out of nowhere without any grounding in the situation. I PM staff about the issue and the earlier words from Jay, as well as about the lack of a response to the fax. The responding adminPM was a quick and prompt "WELP". I chill in the CIC, asking everyone to wait and that the Marshall's Office would be replying shortly. Two MPs come gunning up to arrest me. They keep trying to slap cuffs on me while I gently move them away, eventually they pull stun weapons. These stun weapons promptly get disarmed and tossed to corners of the room. This happens about six times in total as the MPs were hilariously unrobust, until I finally get batoned. The fax response from the Marshall's Office arrives at this point. I get cuffed and dragged to a cell by the CMP who fullstrips me, while I'm asking MPs and Command to go and read the fax. Eventually, when I'm naked in a cell and the CMP is about to permabrig me, the fax gets read, stating that the CMP is unfit for duty and to be detained. MPs move in to detain him and he tries to flee, dragging a naked and cuffed me behind him, but gets tased and cuffed. I regain my gear, and the launch warning sounds about the xenos on the dropship. I order him to be uncuffed and to be given a gun, and that we'd deal with this if we survived. That was the last contact of the round.
Sir Lordington wrote:
08 Oct 2017, 11:59
Overall, the situation was a mess. I've been thinking long and hard about wether to make a report and Alchane, Stonearacka and Mason all acted questionably. However, it is Mason that first decided to act like an MP, getting involved in cases that had nothing to do with him and then outright decided that it was he who determined what constitutes a false arrest and how MPs should enforce the law, then decided to outright interfere with MPs doing their jobs and basically took control of the department acting as if he was the CMP, and had me brigged for, apparently, false arrest, which could not be applied as I did not order the arrests. At the very least this is VERY low RP (breach of the "reasonable person" RP guideline) by getting involved in arrests that have nothing to do with him, if not an outright breach of Marine specific Rule 6 as he started enforcing Marine Law by declaring arrests unlawful and interfering with arrests in progress.
At no point did I act like an MP. There is a duty of care for higher ranks to lower ranks as per RP. Denying the marines of half of the active medics at the time would result in a lot of damage being done. From an OOC perspective, brigging three medics for having drugs which they - and I - had no idea were not permitted because the CMO had said so in private takes them out of the round and stops their enjoyment. Alongside this, it cripples the enjoyment of the marines on the planet, as they'll be taken out of the round without any adequate healing. I felt like the CMP was acting questionably by being deliberately obstructive towards myself, Command, marines and the overall fun of the round. I attempted to deal with each situation in an IC manner, using the means at my disposal as well as keeping the Commander up to date. I asked Alchane to detain you and did not physically get involved in MP activities. At a point after this, I was advised to make a player report about the behaviour demonstrated by the CMP, but didn't due to it all being dealt with ICly without any OOC problems.

If I've not covered anything, feel free to let me know.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Emeraldblood » 10 Oct 2017, 15:24

Can I get like a list of what role everyone was because I don't know who is who in this whole debate?
PM: xxx->Emerald Blood: oh shit this is colonial marines? whops. wrong server i wanna go to a normal space station 13

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by XenocidalEnragement » 11 Oct 2017, 08:51

Emeraldblood wrote:
10 Oct 2017, 15:24
Can I get like a list of what role everyone was because I don't know who is who in this whole debate?
Marcellus/Chaz was the Executive Officer, Compton/PewPew was the Warrant Officer, Dadlantern/Stonearacka was a Military Police officer, Shy was the Commander and I have no idea on the others.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by DadLantern » 11 Oct 2017, 09:22

XenocidalEnragement wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 08:51
Marcellus/Chaz was the Executive Officer, Compton/PewPew was the Warrant Officer, Dadlantern/Stonearacka was a Military Police officer, Shy was the Commander and I have no idea on the others.

I was the SO. Stonearacka was a SO.

The other people involed in this situation would be the many MP officers.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by XenocidalEnragement » 11 Oct 2017, 10:00

DadLantern wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 09:22
I was the SO. Stonearacka was a SO.

The other people involed in this situation would be the many MP officers.
Oh, yeah, I remember it now.

The round's huge IC conflict between Command and the MP was overshadowed in my mind once xenos invaded the Almayer and we were called up to the defense. While I sort of feel like both parties have done their fair share of wrongs (the XO overextending his reach by a bit into the MP's affairs and the WO acting like a shining example of Lawful Stupid), it was overall a really nice roleplay event that broke up the monotony that Command and Security normally endure for the first hour or so into every round.

Personally, I don't think the situation warranted a OOC report on the other player, although I can understand why someone would be peeved off for being stuck in the Brig for a good portion of their round.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by DadLantern » 11 Oct 2017, 18:26

Exactly. I didn't see it as a problem in any way. It was a fun little RP thing, and nothing to get mad about. Your power will be limited and excused in this game, just roll with it and act as your character would.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Cpkeyes » 11 Oct 2017, 20:08

DadLantern wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 18:26
Exactly. I didn't see it as a problem in any way. It was a fun little RP thing, and nothing to get mad about. Your power will be limited and excused in this game, just roll with it and act as your character would.
Expect in my opinion, as a person who was there the entire time as an outside observer, it wasn't. The MP's (Especially Sarah Price, who tried to stop me from sending a fax about the thing because I was so pissed off) didn't seem to know what they were doing, producure was not followed and the entire thing was basically a soap opera. The bloody admins had to intervene about it, the CMP was put in the brig for the entire OP (which is against the law) for false charges and a bunch of other shit. All over some theft charges.

This was a communication issue ICly that turned into a shitfist. In fact I don't think Mason ever actually put in an acting CMP, he was basically the CMP and the MP's were effectively his enforcers. I also feel like some of the MP's were new and didn't actually understand what they were suppose to do. They just seemed to be doing whatever Mason and the CO told them to do. I feel like this may be a breach of "Unless you are part of the Military Police, you should not be enforcing Marine Law. You may receive a job-ban if you do. If there are no MPs you should Admin Help the situation to see what to do."

I don't feel like this is an IC only issue. There is no reasonable, sane reason, the command staff, the military police and a (through I feel like the CMP did nothing wrong oocly) CMP should act like this. This was one person having a power trip, a CO who clearly needs to learn how to listen and two different variants of shitcurity.

I have never wanted to ahelp for a mutiny in all the time I've played this server. Not even on a Carson round but this was the first time.

I feel like everyone involved in this needs a talking too. Because honestly this was despicable and I feel like if anyone should be punished, it's Chaz for he was the one started the whole thing.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Chaznoodles » 12 Oct 2017, 14:15

Cpkeyes wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 20:08
Expect in my opinion, as a person who was there the entire time as an outside observer, it wasn't. The MP's (Especially Sarah Price, who tried to stop me from sending a fax about the thing because I was so pissed off) didn't seem to know what they were doing, producure was not followed and the entire thing was basically a soap opera. The bloody admins had to intervene about it, the CMP was put in the brig for the entire OP (which is against the law) for false charges and a bunch of other shit. All over some theft charges.
The CMP was in a Brig cell for around twenty minutes, tops.
Cpkeyes wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 20:08
This was a communication issue ICly that turned into a shitfist. In fact I don't think Mason ever actually put in an acting CMP, he was basically the CMP and the MP's were effectively his enforcers. I also feel like some of the MP's were new and didn't actually understand what they were suppose to do. They just seemed to be doing whatever Mason and the CO told them to do. I feel like this may be a breach of "Unless you are part of the Military Police, you should not be enforcing Marine Law. You may receive a job-ban if you do. If there are no MPs you should Admin Help the situation to see what to do."
There was never an acting CMP because we still had an active CMP, bar the fact he was in a cell. If we'd received a fax in time regarding the situation, he would've either been released or demoted as appropriate and another MP put in his stead. As it was, the MPs were left to their own devices as there were no real problems concerning other crimes, and were asked to ask the CO or, failing that, myself if any issues arose. At no point did I enforce Marine Law. I asked Alchane to detain the CMP. If I was enforcing marine law, I would've done it myself instead of asking a MP.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Sir Lordington » 13 Oct 2017, 10:22

Far from a "little fun RP thing", this was a shitshow where one player didn't like the way Marine Law was being enforced so he decided to take over and have it enforced his way. The problem is that the CMP gets to decide how the law is enforced? Don't like how I do it, too bad. Play CMP and do it your way, but don't have the CMP brigged on false charges and take over the department. Let's get down to business.
Chaznoodles wrote:
09 Oct 2017, 12:57
As far as I was aware throughout this entire debacle, the CO had authorised peri and the CMO had not said they denied it. The smartfridge is (was, now!) accessible by medics, and is where the chems made by doctors are placed if they are to be used by medics. This is common knowledge. I remember hearing the CMO calling for MPs to medbay, so I pinged the MPs over the MP channel and left them to it, assuming it was just marines being rowdy. I get informed, five minutes or so later, that three medics are in the Brig for having peridaxon. Knowing this was authorised by the CO and the CMO hadn't said a word about it, I head on down. Chatting to the three medics, I find out none of them had been told the chemicals in the smartfridge were not to be taken by them, nor that peridaxon was off-limits, nor had they been asked to return it prior to the arrest. I explain this to the CO after my usual complaining about overzealous MPs, he advises me to tell the marines in the cells to make appeals which he'll authorise. I do so, they all appeal. Problem solved, I start to head back up to the CIC to resume my duties.
First mistake. "The CMO didn't say it WASN'T authorised!". That does not mean it's authorised. For a compound to be distributed authorisation from the CO AND CMO is required. Therefore, if you only have one, it's not authorised. Silence is not authorisation. They took unauthorised chems, therefore they were liable to be arrested. You don't get told that peridaxon is off limits, it is always off limits unless you are told it isn't. Oh and just as an aside. those appeals were invalid. Marine Law says you appeal to the acting Commander IF the CMP is not available. I was standing right there, if anything, it was the commander who was absent as he was in the CIC running the op.
Chaznoodles wrote:
09 Oct 2017, 12:57
Here's where the issue started. If you had confiscated the meds when the arrests had been made as is procedure, it'd all have been fine. However, as soon as I get up the Brig ladder to the CIC - not even getting through the CIC door - the medic who is being rearrested notifies me. Stonearacka is already down there so I head on back down.
I didn't process the prisoners, MPs should've taken the drugs. Upon finding out that they didn't, I told the medic to leave them behind and he refused. Insubordination. Turns out the second arrest is also valid, who'd have known.
Chaznoodles wrote:
09 Oct 2017, 12:57
I find Stonearacka placing himself bodily between the CMP and the rearrested medic and asking the CMP to, long story short, stop being a mong.
So, interfering with an arrest. Turns out the LT's arrest was ALSO valid.
Chaznoodles wrote:
09 Oct 2017, 12:57
The CMP proceeds to tase the SO. At this point, I get involved, shake the SO up, and ask what the absolute dicks is going on.
Interfering with an arrest. It turns out that I made three arrests, not six as claimed and none of them were false.
Chaznoodles wrote:
09 Oct 2017, 12:57
The CMP starts shouting about not getting involved in MP affairs. I laugh. Stonearacka gets up and heads left, presumably to get away from the CMP. The CMP chases. I ask Alchane to detain the CMP and he does so, while I call for the Commander to come down and resolve the situation.
That you did. You told him to arrest me on no charges (bad procedure) he tased me down without ordering me to the ground (bad procedure too, figures) and didn't read me my charges (I'd say it's bad MP procedure, but again, there weren't any).
Chaznoodles wrote:
09 Oct 2017, 12:57
I uncuff the medic and shoo them off, telling them to get planetside and help marines. Terrance, another MP, blocks my way and says they'll arrest me if I do so. I stare them down and open the door for the medic. He jogs off, I get tased, Terrance tosses me in a cell. By this point, the Commander is talking to the CMP, and writing a fax. I walk out the cell because improper procedure conducted by the MP, and get tased and tossed back in.
You uncuff a cuffed prisoner and release them? How is this not acting like an MP and enforcing the law? It's not the XO's place to release prisoners in MP custody. The arrest seems to respond to your release of the prisoner, but it may also respond to your previous breach of the law, go figure. Also, by walking out you just committed jailbreak.
Chaznoodles wrote:
09 Oct 2017, 12:57
Fax gets sent, we chuck the CMP into a cell until the fax gets answered, which we assumed would be promptly due to the number of staff online
Unlawful.
Chaznoodles wrote:
09 Oct 2017, 12:57
The CMP is screeching about this all being unlawful and shouting at MPs to arrest Stonearacka and I for insubordination, we don't order his headset removed because he's pretty harmless in a cell. Terrance makes a move to and gets browbeaten by me, standing down eventually. To stop the CMP whining, I declare the charges to be six stacked charges of false arrests - which, looking back and at the definition of false arrests, would've been two false arrests and repeated counts of insubordination/assault. At this point, I get a PM from Jay Burns - I believe - asking about the charges. I respond, detailing the situation and his orders to arrest me from his cell. He informs me to tell him if the CMP tries to have me arrested out of spite when he gets released. I wander back up to the CIC and take the helm as the Commander is busy with Price the MP, who wants to resign over this whole debacle. Whilst in the CIC, an ARES message comes through saying that the CMP's arrest was false and I'm to be arrested.

This is where another problem arises; the lack of staff response to the earlier fax, and the apparent ignorance of the situation. The ARES message seemed to come out of nowhere without any grounding in the situation. I PM staff about the issue and the earlier words from Jay, as well as about the lack of a response to the fax. The responding adminPM was a quick and prompt "WELP". I chill in the CIC, asking everyone to wait and that the Marshall's Office would be replying shortly. Two MPs come gunning up to arrest me. They keep trying to slap cuffs on me while I gently move them away, eventually they pull stun weapons. These stun weapons promptly get disarmed and tossed to corners of the room. This happens about six times in total as the MPs were hilariously unrobust, until I finally get batoned. The fax response from the Marshall's Office arrives at this point. I get cuffed and dragged to a cell by the CMP who fullstrips me, while I'm asking MPs and Command to go and read the fax. Eventually, when I'm naked in a cell and the CMP is about to permabrig me, the fax gets read, stating that the CMP is unfit for duty and to be detained. MPs move in to detain him and he tries to flee, dragging a naked and cuffed me behind him, but gets tased and cuffed. I regain my gear, and the launch warning sounds about the xenos on the dropship. I order him to be uncuffed and to be given a gun, and that we'd deal with this if we survived. That was the last contact of the round.
I was screaming about an unlawful situation being unlawful while being unlawfully detained in a cell as the CMP. Crazy, right? And no, I was calling for your arrest for interfering with an arrest, not insubordination, stop making shit up to make me look like I don't know how to play MP. As I've already explained, all the charges were bogus. Including insubordination (not listening to a superior about law-related matters is not insubordination) and there were no assaults. Stop making stuff up.

You also forget to mention how you called for everyone to ignore ARES and brig me again, and how I didn't order you rearrested until you made it clear your intention was to remove me entirely. Again, my call for your arrest was entirely valid, you DID interfere with a valid arrest, then released a prisoner and finally committed jailbreak. Those don't go away because of who knows what. You break the law you get brigged.

You weren't naked or in a cell, you were in orange and in transit to permanent confinement. And no, I did not run and never got tased down, I demanded to see the fax and once I read it I complained it was bullshit IC and submitted myself to the authorities. More selective memory and false statements that make me seem like a bad (read: doesn't know how to play. Not the same as unreasonable) MP player. Figures.
Chaznoodles wrote:
09 Oct 2017, 12:57
At no point did I act like an MP. There is a duty of care for higher ranks to lower ranks as per RP. Denying the marines of half of the active medics at the time would result in a lot of damage being done. From an OOC perspective, brigging three medics for having drugs which they - and I - had no idea were not permitted because the CMO had said so in private takes them out of the round and stops their enjoyment. Alongside this, it cripples the enjoyment of the marines on the planet, as they'll be taken out of the round without any adequate healing. I felt like the CMP was acting questionably by being deliberately obstructive towards myself, Command, marines and the overall fun of the round. I attempted to deal with each situation in an IC manner, using the means at my disposal as well as keeping the Commander up to date. I asked Alchane to detain you and did not physically get involved in MP activities. At a point after this, I was advised to make a player report about the behaviour demonstrated by the CMP, but didn't due to it all being dealt with ICly without any OOC problems.
Except you did. If nothing else, you just admitted to personally releasing prisoners from the brig without authorisation from an MP or CMP. That's even if your multiple interferences and takeover of the department are not counted as enforcing the law. I told you myself, report me if you think I broke the rules. I'm inclined to believe you realise I never broke the rules or even the law.

Onto your second post.
Chaznoodles wrote:
12 Oct 2017, 14:15
The CMP was in a Brig cell for around twenty minutes, tops.
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone that you wanted to have me held indefinitely, changed the charges repeatedly, had me arrested without charges and that the only reason I was only there for twenty minutes was due to admin intervention that YOU told other people to ignore and have me rebrigged.
Chaznoodles wrote:
12 Oct 2017, 14:15
There was never an acting CMP because we still had an active CMP, bar the fact he was in a cell. If we'd received a fax in time regarding the situation, he would've either been released or demoted as appropriate and another MP put in his stead. As it was, the MPs were left to their own devices as there were no real problems concerning other crimes, and were asked to ask the CO or, failing that, myself if any issues arose. At no point did I enforce Marine Law. I asked Alchane to detain the CMP. If I was enforcing marine law, I would've done it myself instead of asking a MP.
You had an active CMP that you stripped of a radio and had all other MPs ignore his orders, when in fact they have to listen to the CMP and not Command when enforcing the law. So you didn't have a CMP.


In conclusion. We have an XO who didn't like the way the law was enforced, so he broke it himself several times, had the CMP brigged and took over control of the department, ordering around MPs to see that it was enforced his way. Best of all? He got off scot free. He didn't serve his time. This is not the first time he's played proto-CMP as XO, but this time shit hit the fan. He admitted in his very own post that he enforced Marine Law. I get that Mason really doesn't like the way I play CMP and enforce the law uncompromisingly without care for marine Majors and who's "important" and who's "useful". But frankly, I take offence to disingenuous statements making it seem like I break procedure and purposefully ruin other people's rounds with no care about how to play my role properly. As long as I don't break any rules uncompromising fanatical law enforcer is a valid way to play it. If the CMP refuses to relase a prisoner, that's his right and what you can do is complain verbally or even fax. What you DON'T do is break the law yourself, have him brigged indefinitely without charges and throw a hissy fit when they try to have you arrested for it. I think if staff had wanted the CMP to have to bow to the XO's wishes when enforcing the law and deciding who to release and who to brig, they wouldn't have written Marine Law like they did.

The way I see it, this is far from an IC issue. Mason has himself admitted to releasing prisoners without MP intervention. Jay also told me himself it would be kept IC unless the charges were bullshit. It has been demonstrated that they were. Furthermore, I firmly believe that XOs should be held to a higher standard. Taking over a department and brigging its head because you don't agree on the way he plays his role in a perfectly valid manner, if not griefing, is at least way below those standards. XOs have great power, and with it must come great responsibility. He abused his power and he abused it repeatedly. This isn't even about ruining someone's round. It's standards and precedents. If this goes unpunished it sets a precedent that if you don't like that the CMP isn't bowing down to your wishes, you can throw the book out of the window, have him arrested and run the department as you like without a single consequence, IC or OOC.
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slc97
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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by slc97 » 13 Oct 2017, 11:08

This was not an IC issue, and everyone involved who interfered with arrests is at fault. The rules directly state that you are a reasonable person and cannot interfere with arrests and that if you are not an MP you should not enforce Marine Law.

Furthermore, being CO, XO, SO, etc. does not matter. You outrank the WO in everything except law enforcement. If the WO says someone is being arrested because they broke marine law, then they are being arrested because they broke marine law. No command officer has the authority to intervene with that.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by freemysoul » 13 Oct 2017, 11:14

Considering I was meant to resolve this about 2 days ago, I'll be personally looking into this and deciding soon.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Kneez » 26 Oct 2017, 11:57

freemysoul wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 11:14
Considering I was meant to resolve this about 2 days ago, I'll be personally looking into this and deciding soon.

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by DeadLantern » 06 Nov 2017, 22:56

freemysoul wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 11:14
Considering I was meant to resolve this about 2 days ago, I'll be personally looking into this and deciding soon.
A month later...
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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Chaznoodles » 08 Nov 2017, 15:04

DeadLantern wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 22:56
A month later...
Time works differently in the Shadow Realm

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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by Emeraldblood » 08 Nov 2017, 17:04

Just gonna have to hold on. Head staff will get to this soon.
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Re: Report - Marcellus Mason low RP and enforcing Marine Law

Post by freemysoul » 10 Nov 2017, 14:46

After carefully looking over the evidence provided I am suggesting that Chaznoodle's should receive a jobban from XO and SO, This, in my opinion, is a minor punishment for what you did since your actions alone had caused HUGE problems and effectively griefed the CMP.

I suggest shaping up Chaz, your toeing a VERY fine line again.

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