Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

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NemoVonFish
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Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by NemoVonFish » 13 Oct 2017, 13:31

Your Byond Key: NemoVonFish
Your Character Name: Lance Hardwood
Accused Byond Key(if known): Sirlordington
Character Name: Luke Compton
Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): Roughly 11:30am, Friday, October 13, 2017
What rule(s) were broken: Rule 0.2 (Marine Law - Execution Procedures), Rule 1, Rule 7

Description of the incident:

Round starts, No CO, no XO, I log on as XO and take command of the squads, making sure teams have engineers before I send them on tasks, handle the briefing, handle a few crises, work with an SO, and do what I think is a pretty good job, if the praise from the marines is anything to go by (I'd say so, since I have quite literally never heard them praise command before.)

The CO arrives, and immediately does not like me. There was a survivor, I let the Corporate Liason talk to them first, CO tells me i'm incompetent and puts me on probation.
Right, okay, he wants to RP the anti-WU hardass CO, that's fine, moving on.

CO orders me to retain command for a bit, despite my apparent incompetence, while he talks to the survivors and fiddles with IDs.

Ground mission proceeds nicely, we're about to push in to the underground when a Marine gives birth, and a larvae gets loose on the ship. Commander doesn't call for code blue or red, and tells me to get back to my post when I offer to swipe. I ask the MPs to deal with it, silence. A drone is spotted on the ship. CO steps away to handle some RP, puts me back in charge, I call code blue, and ask the MPs to handle the Xeno. SIlence, again. Someone calls out that the Xeno has been spotted outside the CIC over general comms, so I arm up and step outside. No sign of the Xeno, the CL asks me to help him get in to his office, I help him, and get back to the CIC about a minute later as the CO returns.

He asks why I wasn't at my station, I tell him a xeno was spotted outside the door, and am about to elaborate, when he decides to conclude our relationship.

Does he-
A : Let me get back to work.
B : Give me a stern talking to, and tell me to get back to my post.
C : Demote me, and send me to the brig for disobeying an order.
D : Accuse me of gross incompetence, shoot me three times in the head with his Mateba, and tell medical to lock my body in the morgue.

If you guessed anything but D, I wonder what you thought this appeal was about.

This was my conversation with the admins after my abrupt execution.
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Nowhere in the Execution Procedures does it say dereliction of duty is grounds for execution, let alone battlefield execution, but that's fine, let's move on.

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Nowhere in the Execution Procedures does it say disobeying an order is grounds for execution, let alone battlefield execution, but that's fine, let's move on

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I tried to be as respectful as I could, he's a trialmin, I've been there before, sometimes it's better to not drop the banhammer when you're not 100% sure they deserve it, so that's fine, I wanted to move on.
Only other admin online was Tharinoma, but they were either happy to let Frozentsbgg handle it, or were idle.

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Battlefield execution, ladies and gentlemen:
► Show Spoiler
This part is particularly important, I feel:

This power can only be used on captured prisoners when it is not possible to perform standard execution procedures.
The compliant and respectful XO standing in front of you isn't exactly a captured prisoner, nor were there any circumstances preventing Luke from following standard execution procedures if he absolutely had to get his murderbone on.

He didn't warn anyone he was executing me, he didn't give me a chance to defend myself, and he didn't (to my knowledge) send a fax asking if it was justified.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
Screenshots of the adminhelp was provided above, I didn't take logs of the incident because I was sure it could have been dealt with at the time. Apparently not.

Some snippets from the discord immediately following his decision, during a conversation between him and the Corporate Liason:
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How you would punish the accused:

From the rules:

1: (This is similar to the "Rule 0" rule which applies to admins - you're able to do this, but it's much better not to, since you are subject to the consequences of your actions and may be removed from the whitelist if your reasons aren't acceptable.)
2: It wasn't exactly random murder, but it was completely uncalled for and inappropriate. I'm not sure on the standard server punishment for griefing, but it's usually at least a dayban.
Last edited by NemoVonFish on 13 Oct 2017, 14:45, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by emeraldmoonx » 13 Oct 2017, 13:40

Not the first report on this player. Seems like a shit CO tbh. I agree, your execution was unjust and imo Frozen should have done more. It's entirely up to frozen how he handles stuff, but I would have done more... He literally just killed you on the spot cause you were "xeno hunting" when it was right outside CIC.

Personally, I feel like CO Compton isn't a good CO. Not one fit to be whitelisted to play it anyways. Can't say he's a bad player or how he RPs outside of his CO role.

Good luck on your report, hope you get what you want.
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Feweh » 13 Oct 2017, 13:52

I dont agree with this execution.

What you did was component and normal behavior.

Will need the offending CO's reply.

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Sir Lordington
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Sir Lordington » 13 Oct 2017, 14:11

First off, I'd like to say that the probation wasn't meant as a "you're incompetent" thing but rather a "let's see "how you do when commanding an operation". I deal with survivors and such while keeping an eye on the XO. I see him give a few confusing and contradictory orders and decide to take command. The "dislike", if you can call itt hat was mostly prompted by his first announcement giving Delta the objective "Don't go underground are you mad?" and him wearing Commander's Beret and Gloves as I arrived in the CIC, which lit up a few alarms.

I did call for red when the larva was loose, but nobody swiped and I got lost with trying to command the ground forces. Anyway, the ground progresses and I have a prisoner telling me that the CMP, who was the only MP, tried to push him into the Alamo and requests an appeal. I tell the XO to hold the CIC while I go the brig, since the CMP seems to be willing to defer to my decision. It takes some time but it's finally solved and I return to the CIC.

I find an empty CIC and call for the XO, seems he's geared up and gone outside.I call him back and I question him on this. Does he tell me he heard a Xeno outside and went to check? No. He just says "there's a drone on the ship" and runs off again, which to me shows clear intent to neglect your duty to go Xeno hunting. He never explains that the Xeno was seen outside the CIC. That's when I call him back and remind him of his orders. He tells me that "a Xeno infestation struck him as slightly more important [than your order to hold the CIC]". That's when I decided to execute him for insubordination.

He never explained he was defending the CIC and instead decided to first, run off as he's being scolded and second directly tell his superior officer that he disobeyed the vital order to command the FOB to go and kill a Xeno that, I repeat, HE NEVER SAID WAS THREATENING THE CIC. From my side it looked like insubordination and dereliction of duty.

Were there other things that could've been done besides execute? Yes. Again, that wasn't the only reason for execution, I recall him giving contradicting orders to mine regarding a fallback at the FOB, but it was the main one. I was also focusing on a lot of things in-game. With a clearer head, would I have done it? Maybe, most not. However, were there grounds for Battlefield Execution? I believe so. Again, the impression he transmitted was that he left the operation without a head to go xeno hunting around the ship, this, coupled with his previous performance is what prompted it. I must I was far from on point as CO, but I do not believe the execution was unwarranted and both the moderator who handles the issue and, IC, the MPs did not seem to think so either.

I'd also like to add that the player playing the CL later said over Discord that the XO had repeatedly left the CIC in my absence.

As for my previous reports, humbly, I don't see how they have anything to do. The role was completely different and it has been closed and ruled as an IC issue.

Some logs I took showing the execution: https://pastebin.com/PKuemDmV
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Robotic Potato » 13 Oct 2017, 14:24

As the CL I can confirm he left a few times. I asked for the XO to come help me because I thought he had locked my ID in my office, but ended up I just left it in a computer so he had to leave twice to come help me.
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by NemoVonFish » 13 Oct 2017, 14:26

► Show Spoiler
Cleaned up the logs for the relevant bits.
Sir Lordington wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 14:11
He never explained he was defending the CIC and instead decided to first, run off as he's being scolded and second directly tell his superior officer that he disobeyed the vital order to command the FOB to go and kill a Xeno that, I repeat, HE NEVER SAID WAS THREATENING THE CIC. From my side it looked like insubordination and dereliction of duty.

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I never got the chance to, as the logs show he executed me immediately without giving me a chance to defend myself.

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Sir Lordington » 13 Oct 2017, 15:00

I disagree that you did not have time. The logs also show you had time to speak and when I first spoke you decided to run off again without an explanation, which is what pushed me towards the decision.

I stand by my words. While in retrospect it may have been hasty, and a tad unfair given what I know now, for which I have apologised in private, might I add, I don't think any rules were broken or the execution was unwarranted with the information I had at the time.

In retrospective, I can agree that it sucks. Reason for punishment? Given the precedents we have on Battlefield Executions, I don't think so.

Also, the "only demote via Mateba" line is ironic, which is evident from context and the usage of "boi".
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Emeraldblood » 13 Oct 2017, 15:33

Alright, here's what I got for logs.

There was an attempt on both sides to swipe for red but neither where around at the same time:
[11:01:34]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Swipe for red.
[11:02:08]SAY: Lance Hardwood/NemoVonFish : Are we calling red?

Reminder of what the CO wants the XO to be doing:
[10:59:39]SAY: Lance Hardwood/NemoVonFish : Commander, permission to lead the underground assault in person?
[11:08:11]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : You're not going to make much of a difference without boots on the ground anyway, leftenant .Stay at your console.

CO heads out and gives orders for the XO to hold the CIC:
[11:13:50]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : XO, hold the CIC. Coordinate the ground assault.

XO when the Xeno is seen on the ship:
[11:18:16]SAY: Lance Hardwood/NemoVonFish : ...That's- Arm up, we have hostiles on the ship.
[11:18:35]GAME: NemoVonFish/(Lance Hardwood) has changed the security level to blue.

From the sounds if it, CO is in the Brig at this time:
[11:18:43]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Why?
[11:19:51]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Goddamnit, you couldn't solve this like grown men? Just release him and get to hunting that bug in our ship!
[11:20:28]SAY: Lance Hardwood/NemoVonFish : MPs, are you bad enough dudes to get that goddamn lizard off this ship?

CO is now returning to the CIC:
[11:27:14]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : XO?
[11:28:00]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Where the fuck were you, XO?
[11:28:19]SAY: Lance Hardwood/NemoVonFish : There's a drone on the ship, apparently-
XO starts to walk away at this point:
[11:28:25]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Get bacl
[11:28:28]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : XO!
[11:28:33]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : I TOLD YOU TO MAN THE CIC.
[11:28:57]SAY: Lance Hardwood/NemoVonFish : A lizard infestation on the ship struck me as slightly more important, Sir.
[11:29:03]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Your performance this Op has been disgraceful.
[11:29:10]SAY: Lance Hardwood/NemoVonFish : I'm sorry to hear you say so.
[11:29:22]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : You were supposed to man the CIC and instead you go lizard hunting.
[11:29:27]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : I gave you a clear and direct order.
[11:29:35]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Furthermore, you failed your probation.
[11:29:43]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : You are relieved of command.
[11:29:45]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Dismissed.
[11:29:48]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Lance Hardwood (nemovonfish) with a the high-impact revolver bullet [x4]

Overall, while the CO didn't give much warning that he was going to do a B.E. but this also isn't required (and not the best idea if someone is armed with a weapon as they are able to fight back if they know their life is at risk). The CO stated the reasons for his actions ahead of time so this is inline with the rules. Rules for reference: "They may kill anyone under their command or on their ship without any warning or procedure if they feel they are a threat to the mission. The CO/Admiral must state why the individual was executed and should the MPs have concerns, they may contact USCM High Command VIA FAX to inquire if the execution was reasonable afterwards." Not my final call on the matter but this feels justified as-per the rules

A lot of logs where pulled that seem related to the case but I put the most related up there. The full list of pulled logs will be found here in case more context is required.
► Show Spoiler
PM: xxx->Emerald Blood: oh shit this is colonial marines? whops. wrong server i wanna go to a normal space station 13

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by frozentsbgg » 13 Oct 2017, 23:38

Since I was the one "dealing" with this, when you Ahelped, I feel somewhat responsible for this report.
Initially when your Posted the Ahelp, and got over your initial salt I was supportive of your side and the idea that the CO had Just straight up Blown your Head off with no warning.

However, having spoken to both Sirlordington, and you at *length* about the Topic, I came to the conclusion that although it was rushed, and likely not necessary. I explained to Nemo that, although I felt the execution was still valid, his best bet was to report him on the forum.
From watching the round, Lodington had been keeping an eye on the XO even prior to the Lizard Infestation, as he shared with me in Ahelps (Which I totally forgot to log whoops), The XO was already on "probation" for previous incidents before the Execution. Throughout the round, you left the CIC and your post despite clear orders to do so.

I don't agree with Nemo's decision to take my "Quotes" in Ahelp replies heavily out of context, You seem to have left out all the sections with your salt, and the demanding to talk to talk to another staff member ( who was Idle at the time). You speak of respecting me as a Tmod, well your dialog sure didn't reinforce that fact, I understand salt, but it doesn't exactly want to make me work harder for you (which I was at the time, as I was having a go at the CO about the matter) I'd directed him here. Most of the quotes that you seem to have taken of me are ones after I've "finished" dealing with the situation, and you've continued to hassle me in Ahelp when I was busy doing other things.

So, To Summarise, I think that although Sirlordington's Execution was rushed and not totally necersary, his reasoning behind in my eyes was correct after talking to him and viewing the actions prior to the Execution of the XO and it was Okay under the Rules.


Edit: I'd just like that add, that not one member of the MP team decided to Fax USMC regarding the Execution, and from my observation the MP's were supportive of the commander in the situation.

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by NemoVonFish » 14 Oct 2017, 00:37

I'll wait for another mod to post before offering my rebuttal.

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Sir Lordington » 14 Oct 2017, 14:12

The more I see and think about this the more I get the impression that, if not malicious, this report is at the very least salt-induced.

Frankly, I found it quite distasteful that you'd cherry pick my discord quotes without any context whatsoever, but now that I learn that you did the same with the mod's quotes... Well, I'm starting to regret my apology, to be frank.

I did not answer the point about the procedure being improper. I thought it was quite evident that it was not. First off, you were not a captured prisoner by any definition of those words. You were uncuffed, unbuckled, standing two tiles in front of me and you had your sidearm in your holster. No, you were not warned, although I did give a list of failings before execution. Warning is not required for a Battlefield Execution, especially given that you were armed with an 88 mod and defending yourself from execution is allowed. Few COs are going to wait for you to put three AP bullets in their head before attempting to execute you.

Furthermore, there is another great inconsistency in your report. You quite clearly claim you told me the Xeno was spotted outside the CIC door here
NemoVonFish wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 13:31
He asks why I wasn't at my station, I tell him a xeno was spotted outside the door, and am about to elaborate, when he decides to conclude our relationship.
The logs show this is patently false. If you had told me the xeno was outside the door and you were simply defending the CIC, you would not have been executed. Instead, from the way you communicated your actions, the clear assumption was that you had gone xeno hunting. Furthermore, you were at the CL office, which is a ways away from the CIC.

It seems to me that you are upset about your field execution and are grasping at straws here. I know that feeling, hell, I've been field executed for doing my job due to a miscommunication before. However, I think you're trying to paint the picture that I simply decided I did not like you without any reason and wantonly executed you, which is quite simply false and I take exception to it. There were valid IC reasons for execution (leaving your post repeatedly against direct orders and doing so literally in front of the Commander, for one) and while brigging would have been valid, so was execution and by your own admittance the MPs were incompetent and overwhelmed (I believe the only MP at this point was the CMP, and he was handling quite a few things).
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by NemoVonFish » 14 Oct 2017, 18:08

I don't want this to become a drag-down slap-fight in which you and I bicker until an admin comes in and locks the thread to shut us up, please be patient.
** EDIT: Two days is probably long enough to put the conversation on hold, I guess - my reply: **

When he was whitelisted, he was expected to fully understand and agree to strictly adhere to the roleplay guidelines, in particular the rules around Battlefield Executions. He has said multiple times that the execution was valid, justified, or made IC sense, which according to the written rules for executions is just straight up wrong - I didn't qualify for an execution in the first place, let alone a battlefield execution.
Executions of prisoners are authorized for crimes with execution as the maximum punishment. Additionally, if the maximum amount of time to be served is greater than 1 hour, or for repeated offenders, the Chief MP or Acting Commander may request an execution. Both must agree for an execution to be authorized.
Sir Lordington wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 14:11
That's when I decided to execute him for insubordination.
No crime was committed with execution as the maximum punishment - Insubordination is at most 30 minutes brig time and demotion. He also did not consult with the Chief MP prior to the execution, he didn't gain their approval to authorise an execution, nor does it appear he even informed them directly; he just made a general announcement and then called for a doctor to stash the body in the morgue.

But he didn't just execute me, he performed a Battlefield Execution, which is reserved for threats to the mission. I am having a hard time thinking of a way a peaceful, compliant XO demoted and removed from command is an active and immediate threat to the mission. His other points don't excuse ignoring protocol and performing a spur-of-the-moment battlefield execution either - You can't immediately execute someone because the MPs are "overwhelmed" or "incompetent", you can't immediately execute someone because they walk away mid-conversation, and again, you can't immediately execute someone unless they are a threat to the mission. The moment I was removed from power I had no control over the mission, and my execution was by definition unjustified.

Justified RAW/RAI or not, the main reason he gives for my execution was abandoning my post at the CIC, and claims I didn't tell him about the xeno. If he was paying attention, he would have seen:
1. People talking about the xeno loose on the ship.
2. The call that it was spotted outside a rec deck.
3. That I was directing Charlie and Delta, and communicating with Alpha, Bravo, and Command via headset.
4. During our conversation, he would have heard glass shattering outside the CIC as I was typing my response, which is the entire reason I stopped typing my explanation, drew my gun and ran outside.

Throughout the whole time I was in command I was never beyond the hallway immediately outside CIC, I wasn't exactly ignoring my duties to prowl the ship going xenohunting, I was defending myself and the other SOs.

The other charges such as incompetence, or giving conflicting orders weren't mentioned at the time they happened, nor at the time of execution. At no point did he inform me I was failing in my duties, except for immediately prior to killing me before I had a chance to defend my actions. Before he pulled out the Mateba and emptied it in my head, I was taking our victory on the ground as a sign I was doing well as an XO, his abrasive IC personality notwithstanding.


As for the accusations of taking quotes out of context, the only adminhelps I didn't include were the first one, and my request for more information after frozentsbgg had left me hanging without telling me the situation was 'resolved' for ten or twenty minutes, and his subsequent direction to 'take it to the forums as he had more important things to do'. These were omitted because they're unimportant, but if you feel they would add important context then please, by all means, post the full logs of the adminhelps. Same deal for the discord chat, if you think I'm misrepresenting the conversation with the liason about killing me, then please, post the whole thing, I only pasted the parts that were relevant to my appeal.

And as for the apology, it's pretty insincere if you immediately bring it up as a reason you shouldn't be punished, and then rescind it after something unrelated.

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Sir Lordington » 15 Oct 2017, 18:49

At this point, I'm just straight up confused. From your comments I get the impression that you are getting standard executions and Battlefield Executions mixed up.

I followed procedure for a Battlefield execution to a T. The CO does not have to warn anyone that he is performing a Battlefield Execution. He does not need to consult the CMP, or anyone else. He doesn't have to give you last words, or anyting else. He can simply pull out his gun, shoot you, and then make an announcement about why he did that. Furthermore, you do not have to have committed a crime with a penalty of Execution, nor have more than sixty minutes of accumulated Brig time to be Battlefield Executed. Blatant Insubordination may qualify you for Battlefield Execution.

Were you a danger to the operation? An XO who commits theft (wearing the commander's gear at roundstart), gives conflicting orders, countermands the CO's own orders, abandons his post after being told to hold the CIC and coordinate the people groundside and disobeys the CO to his face and tells him that boarders are "more important" than his direct order to command the operation while marines die on the ground to his face and in front of his Staff Officers, thereby undermining his authority is a danger to the operation, at least by some standard. I don't think it unreasonable to say that you were a "danger to the operation". "Danger to an operation" is a very loose term. People have been Mateba'd for dropping OBs on marines accidentally. People have been Battlefield Executed simply for insulting the CO, hell, I've seen people BE'd for standing in the CO's way as he retreated. I myself have been executed for brigging too many people and not releasing them when ordered to do so, even though I had full rights to deny it. So no, there was no improper procedure. I think it's only reasonable to base ourselves on precedent, and precedent indicates that the execution was valid.

You say I broke rules 0.2, Rule 1 and Rule 7. It's not my place to interpret the rules, but as I read it it is MOSTLY meant for OOC dickery. Playing a dick IC IS allowed, as long as it doesn't cross the line. To my knowledge I never harassed you ro made any remarks towards you OOC. As for rules 0.2 and 7, you seem to be claiming there were no roleplay reasons for the execution. I disagree. I have already explained my position on the matter, from the information I had, you had gone xeno hunting against orders, showed no intent to explain the situation when called and had repeatedly shown behaviour that would be upsetting IC and qualified you for a Battlefield Execution.

The apology has nothing to do with this report. The comment was directed towards you and not the staff handling the case, and therefore I should not have made it here. I will elaborate on what I meant through private channels.
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by apophis775 » 15 Oct 2017, 20:19

Let me just remind everyone:
The Commander & Admiral of the Almayer holds the authority to perform a Battlefield Execution. They may kill anyone under their command or on their ship without any warning or procedure if they feel they are a threat to the mission. The CO/Admiral must state why the individual was executed and should the MPs have concerns, they may contact USCM High Command VIA FAX to inquire if the execution was reasonable afterwards. (This is similar to the "Rule 0" rule which applies to admins - you're able to do this, but it's much better not to, since you are subject to the consequences of your actions and may be removed from the whitelist if your reasons aren't acceptable.).
From what I've seen, while it probably wasn't the BEST point for an execution, I don't see it actually violation the procedure.

If he ordered you to stay in the CiC and you left for any reason, that's a violation of the orders he gave you.

However, I'm not sure he should have been executed after you said "dismissed". There's not a clear violation of the procedure, but a bit on the unnecessary side.

Why did you believe it was necessary to execute him after you told him he was releived?
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Sir Lordington » 15 Oct 2017, 20:43

That was just a cheesy way to foreshadow the execution, to be frank. The whole one liner thing and such. It's noted and I will avoid confusing dialogue in the future.
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by NemoVonFish » 15 Oct 2017, 21:33

apophis775 wrote:
15 Oct 2017, 20:19
From what I've seen, while it probably wasn't the BEST point for an execution, I don't see it actually violation the procedure.
Form the way the rules about execution are laid out, I got the impression Battlefield Executions are an extension for the rules about Executions, as in, to qualify for the latter, you must qualify for the former. If i'm reading it wrong, then that's fine, it's far from the only reason the execution was unnecessary. I'm sure when you wrote the rule for Battlefield Executions, your intention was for officers that are intentionally hampering the mission, which is not at all what happened here.
apophis775 wrote:
15 Oct 2017, 20:19
If he ordered you to stay in the CiC and you left for any reason, that's a violation of the orders he gave you.
A violation of the orders, yes, I was guilty of insubordination. But is a single count of insubordination to defend the CIC from a xeno the "threat to the mission" you had in mind when you authorised impromptu executions? Why have so many rules and procedures around executions if the CO can just decide arbitrarily that a crime is worthy of execution, and ignore all of the usually necessary steps? Before this incident, I had obeyed orders, been respectful, and at no point put the mission at risk. He didn't warn me about any of the behaviour he now cites as reason for my execution:

1. An XO who commits theft (wearing the commander's gear at roundstart)
Be fair, it was a beret and gloves which you didn't even care about once returned, it's not like I stole your smartgun. If it was theft, you should have told the MPs and followed proper channels.

2. gives conflicting orders
In the logs Emeraldblood posted there is absolutely zero evidence of this, and the only order shown is us giving the same one. I don't remember giving any conflicting orders, and you never mentioned it during the round, so I'm not sure where this charge is coming from.

3. countermands the CO's own orders
Same as above, if you can find logs, or another admin can get them for you, please post them, because so far you've mentioned these charges a few times, but provided zero evidence, and it looks like you're just making it up.

4. abandons his post after being told to hold the CIC and coordinate the people groundside
I was coordinating the people groundside via headset, I was gone for at most a minute, and I was defending the CIC from a clear and present threat.

5. disobeys the CO to his face and tells him that boarders are "more important"
You seem to be trying to paint the picture I ran out of the CIC at the first mention of xenos to go hunting. The only times I prioritised the safety of the CIC over your order to stand physically inside the CIC was when the xeno was spotted outside, and during our conversation - I thought the sound of glass shattering right outside would be proof enough that there was a threat, but you ignored it.


He had zero reason to believe that once I was demoted and removed from command, that I would put the mission at risk. Even when quite literally staring down the barrel of the gun I didn't flee from his judgement I didn't argue, and continued to treat my CO with respect. In my first post I listed plenty of other ways he could have dealt with the situation that would have been perfectly acceptable, avoid this entire report, and been a catalyst for a more enjoyable round for everyone. Just as Conduct Unbecoming an Officer is enough to double a brig sentence, surely being whitelisted comes with the assumption that you'll be held to a higher standard than other players and are expected to follow the RAI, not take the first opportunity to execute someone after delivering a snappy line, then brag about it on discord.

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Feweh » 16 Oct 2017, 12:53

With the further information provided, im not seeing any issues as you abandoned the CIC and ran away from the CO while he was speaking to you.

Not the best execution, but not the worst

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by NemoVonFish » 16 Oct 2017, 13:19

...To defend the CIC from a xeno threat. Does that not factor in at all? How exactly am I a threat to the mission by defending the CIC from a threat to the mission?

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Emeraldblood » 16 Oct 2017, 23:06

Overall point is that you decided to not follow orders at your own peril. The CO outranks you for a reason and you're expected, more-so as the XO, to follow his orders. While you may have been trying to do your own thing to help, it doesn't change the fact you still disobeyed his orders.
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by NemoVonFish » 17 Oct 2017, 05:42

Alright, thanks for putting that so succinctly, and I've tried to cut down my remaining questions to two points.

According to the admin team's understanding of the intent of the rules:

1. Was disobeying an order to remain physically inside the CIC enough of a crime to judge me as a threat to the mission, and perform a Battlefield Execution?
2. Was his behaviour acceptable from a whitelisted role?

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by AlanDemarest » 18 Oct 2017, 10:19

I decided to not make a new topic, because he was probably within rights of executing me, on grounds of insubordination and possibly mutiny. Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that he gave a suicidal order to a small group of marines, and would not have it any other way, my character had watched the slaughter throughout the marine cameras and tried to countermand it.(Is this mutiny? It's certainly insubordination). Before this command had been notified of their capabilities, the gas from boilers, the screecher and how they were tearing people to pieces, how marines were being caught alive, how larvas burst from their chests, etc.

Are COs supposed to be allowed giving suicidal orders without repercussion(ICly and OOCly)? Is it considered part of the roleplay? Notice the orders are "All healthy marines", not "Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta", because the squads were none existent, there was no command structure left, atleast in Charlie.

To be honest, if the rules on mutinies weren't so rigid, I would probably have shot him in his chair myself. You'll find a lot of salt if you read my deadchat, regarding the rules and how hard it is. I'm opposed to having to contact CMP, central command(admins), non-lethals and stuff like that. Especially when the CO can just execute you on the spot himself, while you have to watch him do it, because if you don't you're breaking the rules.

Later in the round he also executed two more people on what was the same grounds, but I did not get logs of that. I think ones name was Terry.

I'm pretty sure this will go nowhere, but since there is already a report on him, I thought I'd just put it in.

Description of the incident:

I was SO of Charlie, all of them were wiped out, only a few on the Almayer. Nexus and Cargo FOB had been overrun, LZ1 was about to be overrun, at this point there was no squad combat capable and everything was chaos. CO Luke Compton ordered all marines to get aboard to fly down to LZ1 to try and hold it, though doing so would be a suicide mission. We already knew their capabilities within fighting,they had wiped us out at Tfort, then at hydroponics, then cargo/northern Nexus, then center Nexus and were now at the doors on LZ1, where there was a small group of marines left.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

[20:38:50]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : Do not go down to the planet.
[20:38:58]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : I said deploy!
[20:39:03]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Are you countermanding me?
[20:39:33]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : ALL HEALTHY MARINES ARE TO DEPLOY VIA DS1!
[20:39:54]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : Belay that order, that is suicide
[20:39:56]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Brigging? I'm going to start executing people.
[20:40:00]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : Do not go back down.
[20:40:12]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : I said deploy!
[20:40:14]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : CO, you are ating irrational
[20:40:18]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Are you countermanding me?
[20:40:20]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : They are all dead.
[20:40:23]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : So be it.
[20:40:32]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : I will give you one last chance.
[20:40:38]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Never go against my orders again.
[20:40:53]SAY: Sirlordington/(Luke Compton) has made Command Announcement: Command Announcement - LZ is holding. All healthy marines are to deploy via DS1. - Luke Compton (Commander)
[20:41:01]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : GET ON YOUR CONSOLE.
[20:41:06]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : No.
[20:41:08]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : COMMAND YOUR MEN TO DEPLOY.

At this point I start walking out of the CIC.

[20:41:12]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=89;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)
[20:41:16]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : YOU FUCKING WHAT?
[20:41:17]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=89;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)
[20:41:20]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=90;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)
[20:41:21]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=90;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)
[20:41:23]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=90;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)

That's the end of logs I received.


Full unedited logs received from moderator

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by solidfury7 » 18 Oct 2017, 12:00

AlanDemarest wrote:
18 Oct 2017, 10:19
I decided to not make a new topic, because he was probably within rights of executing me, on grounds of insubordination and possibly mutiny. Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that he gave a suicidal order to a small group of marines, and would not have it any other way, my character had watched the slaughter throughout the marine cameras and tried to countermand it.(Is this mutiny? It's certainly insubordination). Before this command had been notified of their capabilities, the gas from boilers, the screecher and how they were tearing people to pieces, how marines were being caught alive, how larvas burst from their chests, etc.

Are COs supposed to be allowed giving suicidal orders without repercussion(ICly and OOCly)? Is it considered part of the roleplay? Notice the orders are "All healthy marines", not "Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta", because the squads were none existent, there was no command structure left, atleast in Charlie.

To be honest, if the rules on mutinies weren't so rigid, I would probably have shot him in his chair myself. You'll find a lot of salt if you read my deadchat, regarding the rules and how hard it is. I'm opposed to having to contact CMP, central command(admins), non-lethals and stuff like that. Especially when the CO can just execute you on the spot himself, while you have to watch him do it, because if you don't you're breaking the rules.

Later in the round he also executed two more people on what was the same grounds, but I did not get logs of that. I think ones name was Terry.

I'm pretty sure this will go nowhere, but since there is already a report on him, I thought I'd just put it in.

Description of the incident:

I was SO of Charlie, all of them were wiped out, only a few on the Almayer. Nexus and Cargo FOB had been overrun, LZ1 was about to be overrun, at this point there was no squad combat capable and everything was chaos. CO Luke Compton ordered all marines to get aboard to fly down to LZ1 to try and hold it, though doing so would be a suicide mission. We already knew their capabilities within fighting,they had wiped us out at Tfort, then at hydroponics, then cargo/northern Nexus, then center Nexus and were now at the doors on LZ1, where there was a small group of marines left.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

[20:38:50]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : Do not go down to the planet.
[20:38:58]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : I said deploy!
[20:39:03]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Are you countermanding me?
[20:39:33]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : ALL HEALTHY MARINES ARE TO DEPLOY VIA DS1!
[20:39:54]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : Belay that order, that is suicide
[20:39:56]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Brigging? I'm going to start executing people.
[20:40:00]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : Do not go back down.
[20:40:12]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : I said deploy!
[20:40:14]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : CO, you are ating irrational
[20:40:18]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Are you countermanding me?
[20:40:20]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : They are all dead.
[20:40:23]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : So be it.
[20:40:32]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : I will give you one last chance.
[20:40:38]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : Never go against my orders again.
[20:40:53]SAY: Sirlordington/(Luke Compton) has made Command Announcement: Command Announcement - LZ is holding. All healthy marines are to deploy via DS1. - Luke Compton (Commander)
[20:41:01]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : GET ON YOUR CONSOLE.
[20:41:06]SAY: Jessica Rathen/AlanDemarest : No.
[20:41:08]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : COMMAND YOUR MEN TO DEPLOY.

At this point I start walking out of the CIC.

[20:41:12]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=89;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)
[20:41:16]SAY: Luke Compton/Sirlordington : YOU FUCKING WHAT?
[20:41:17]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=89;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)
[20:41:20]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=90;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)
[20:41:21]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=90;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)
[20:41:23]ATTACK: Luke Compton (sirlordington) shot Jessica Rathen (alandemarest) with a the high-impact revolver bullet (<A HREF='?_src_=holder;adminplayerobservecoodjump=1;X=90;Y=149;Z=3'>JMP</a>) (<a href='?priv_msg=[0x5000008]'>PM</a>)

That's the end of logs I received.


Full unedited logs received from moderator
In fairness to the CO, you did pose a threat to his command. Undermining a superior publicly is one step away from a mutiny. Especially with comments such as "you're acting irrational"

That's like saying "You are unfit to command" politely.
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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Sir Lordington » 18 Oct 2017, 16:33

Surprised this is even here. The execution was BEYOND justified.

First off, the orders being suicidal is more than questionable. I had been informed before I first gave the order that the defenses at the LZ were good and could hold.

In light of this, I order all HEALTHY Marines (it's not that there weren't any squads, there were squads on the ground, and plenty of marines from those squads who weren't deploying) to deploy as is their duty and assist the marines planetside in the defense. They don't, apparently due to conflicting orders (yours). Instead, they decide to mount a protest outside the brig (which is neglect of duty and pretty close to a mutiny). I repeat the deploy order several times and you keep countermanding it, undermining my command and enabling the protest.

At this point your execution is already justified, but I give you another chance. I tell you to never countermand me again and to return to your console. You say "no" and proceed to try and leave the CIC with a potential mutiny in the works. I execute you. Completely justified.

For reference, I later executed one other guy (not two), an SO who told all marines who didn't want to follow suicidal orders to assemble in Briefing (starting to sound like a mutiny) and told me to give up command or he would have to use force (that IS mutiny).

If this is about the orders, I don't see how it is relevant to the matter at hand, unless you're implying I was griefing. Quite frankly, I don't think ordering healthy marines who are loitering around the Almayer protesting the MPs to deploy and assist in the defense of an LZ under siege is griefing.
I used to play Luke Compton. Now I play Reginald Dempsey.

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Re: Improper Execution Procedure, and just straight-up griefing

Post by Feweh » 25 Oct 2017, 18:04

Resolved.

Valid execution.

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