Player Report on misterjoper

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Player Report on misterjoper

Post by BladeBr » 13 Nov 2017, 12:05

Your Byond Key: Blade2000br

Your Character Name: Jason 'Punk' Crowmel

Accused Byond Key(if known): misterjoper

Character Name: Elite Empress

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): Today, GMT -3 approximately at 11:30 (CST: 5am)

What rule(s) were broken: 8, 9 and bad sportsmanship in general.

Description of the incident: It was low pop, marines have lost 98% of the battalion, with literally only me and 5 other marines, RO, CT, Specs and I think it was all. There was also a CMP that was roaring around the ship for gods know's why, but that's beside the point.

We were holding SD with 3 sentries (one that was with an engineer that got himself killed and the RO bought two to be deployed but never got a use for it) and some ammo, basically holding as much as we could. The Aliens were roaming at us, but we were holding till all the rods were up.

The report comes from this onwards: After the last rod was up, I rushed SD to press the button so we could end this massacre once and for all. Before I could press, however, I got a literal ADMIN telling me through my head that "The entire hive was not there", of course in an IC way, so I halt the SD destruction. for quite some time, screechers and crushers stopped ramming through SD. There was legit only one spitter shooting at us every so often.

I waited 15-10 minutes for an ARES report, only to know the Queen had taken DS2, went planetside and started increasing the hive again. Like, he legit went planetside after knowing I would SD the ship and seemingly "give up" the fight. After several minutes, they hijack the DS2 and come back up again. This time, now using boilers and more crushers(?) so they could breach the SD faster. Mind you, it was after an ADMIN told him to go up, or else, he would just chill till his aliens got mature+ to assault the SD.

Basically, Jopper abused a mechanic/power gamed(the dropship movement) by going down to increase his numbers and chance of breaching SD, only coming up due admin intervention and Metagamed the SD and seemingly "gave up the fight".

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc): Logs from the round will show it.

How you would punish the accused: if the reports go through, I want him a JBan from queen for some time so he can stop this kind of behavior.

If the report does not go through, I want a staff ruling on if the queen is allowed to go planetside by DS2 after a raid on the Almayer failed by her own (without admin intervention/Events)
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Rataca100 » 13 Nov 2017, 12:10

Can confirm, i thought you were being stingy with the SD though. (didn't realise it was IC cover for a OOC issue) Bear in mind earlier they had the chance to host me and a MP since they captured us before we got to SD. edit: We ended up getting slashed to death instead of captured and infected, to elaborate on what happened.
Last edited by Rataca100 on 13 Nov 2017, 12:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Symbiosis » 13 Nov 2017, 12:18

It sounds like they left at least one Xeno on board to prevent the round from ending... while they scouted for furry hosts.

Jopper has a reputation for delaying (sometimes needlessly) that has resulted in very long rounds (3-4 hours) with a large portion of the players sitting and observing for a long period of time. While most Xeno players have been in this particular position before, none seem to relish it more than Jopper. It's not so bad when they play Praetorian, as they can be reined in by Queens, but as a Queen they have likely hit Ancient Empress more than anyone in CM the last 6 months.

While the past has minimal bearing on this report, I'd like to echo that the general consensus (be it true or not) is that Jopper needlessly delays to "solidify" the chance for victory. At the very least this is an abuse (IMHO) of an IG round ending rule (Xenos on board) to "round up" reinforcements and extend the round needlessly.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by misterjoper » 13 Nov 2017, 12:39

Well, Here i am, to explain my actions. I will try to make it short as possible.

I will start defending from the rule 9 acusation,which in order to break it you need to be "Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round" , Well,my character HAS witnessed the deaths of other during SD assault, and how we were making little progress even if he did some kind of progress. It was because did not have any boiler. If we kept assaulting we, would still make little progress, all we did was losing aliens just for 2 scraches of barricades. In the end there were too few of us left to carry on and Every alien on my team admitted it was going bad and morale was generally low. So intead of going Full Russian Commisar I decided To Order everyone to get back to the planet and infect furhosts in lamda, so i would get back with more force . When I got on dropship 2 i announced that i will launch in 2 minutes. Not every alien actually listened which led to the prolonging of the round. I did not Ahelped them for disobidience because I am not a guy who wants to get everyone banned. So my character followed instinct of Preservation of their Species and acted on the knowledge that SHE has witnessed so rule 9 can not apply to me in my opinion.

As for the Rule 8. Honestly I don't see how it's the situation when ALIENs decide not to atack the LZ 1 FOB just because they can't win there. Imploying better tacticks and strategy is not a powergaming, that's what every Officer and Commander has to do to achive victory. I myself don't believe that Using dropship mechanicks is actually a rule break, here's why. I have witnessed several cases in other rounds when aliens, who were left planetside , were asking for Queen to use a dropship 2 to pick them up, and Queen usually did that if she needed reinforcements. I am aware only of single case when "abusing" dropship movement mechanic gets you job-banned. It's when you lauch dropship empty.

As for My reputation of delaying the round, well, I will state that every time the Queen mother told me to "end the round" I actually did so. I was of the opinion that if Queen Mother is not complaining, it's okay to carry on

P.S I am actually trying to follow the Rules, if you look into my notes, each time was given a warning, I did not commit the same offence again.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by BladeBr » 13 Nov 2017, 12:55

misterjoper wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 12:39
Well, Here i am, to explain my actions. I will try to make it short as possible.

I will start defending from the rule 9 acusation,which in order to break it you need to be "Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round" , Well,my character HAS witnessed the deaths of other during SD assault, and how we were making little progress even if he did some kind of progress. It was because did not have any boiler. If we kept assaulting we, would still make little progress, all we did was losing aliens just for 2 scraches of barricades. In the end there were too few of us left to carry on and Every alien on my team admitted it was going bad and morale was generally low. So intead of going Full Russian Commisar I decided To Order everyone to get back to the planet and infect furhosts in lamda, so i would get back with more force . When I got on dropship 2 i announced that i will launch in 2 minutes. Not every alien actually listened which led to the prolonging of the round. I did not Ahelped them for disobidience because I am not a guy who wants to get everyone banned. So my character followed instinct of Preservation of their Species and acted on the knowledge that SHE has witnessed so rule 9 can not apply to me in my opinion.

As for the Rule 8. Honestly I don't see how it's the situation when ALIENs decide not to atack the LZ 1 FOB just because they can't win there. Imploying better tacticks and strategy is not a powergaming, that's what every Officer and Commander has to do to achive victory. I myself don't believe that Using dropship mechanicks is actually a rule break, here's why. I have witnessed several cases in other rounds when aliens, who were left planetside , were asking for Queen to use a dropship 2 to pick them up, and Queen usually did that if she needed reinforcements. I am aware only of single case when "abusing" dropship movement mechanic gets you job-banned. It's when you lauch dropship empty.

As for My reputation of delaying the round, well, I will state that every time the Queen mother told me to "end the round" I actually did so. I was of the opinion that if Queen Mother is not complaining, it's okay to carry on

P.S I am actually trying to follow the Rules, if you look into my notes, each time was given a warning, I did not commit the same offense again.
to not make this lengthy:

1: Yes, you acted in a metagaming way. You knew SD was about to be set so you rushed planetside. Come on, I can't believe the moment I was about to set the SD was the same moment you had the idea of "give up the fight". No Alien queen ever gave up a fight on the game when it was on Almayer.

2: You powergamed the moment you went planetside to capture monkeys to increase your hive so you can go back up and try to finish the marines holding off. This is literally powergaming to achieve maximum chances of "winning" the round.

3: it's a rule break the moment you start using it to get an edge in the battle EVERY time the odds aren't in your favor.

So yeah, you broke those rules. If you had done that one time only, sure, I would be ok. but you continuously do it, to the point even Feweh is filled with it. I am reporting that because this was a BS/shit move from your part.

I only didn't sounded the SD because of YOU going back planetside and holding the game for over 15 minutes after it was supposed to have ended.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by misterjoper » 13 Nov 2017, 13:13

BladeBr wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 12:55
to not make this lengthy:

1: Yes, you acted in a metagaming way. You knew SD was about to be set so you rushed planetside. Come on, I can't believe the moment I was about to set the SD was the same moment you had the idea of "give up the fight". No Alien queen ever gave up a fight on the game when it was on Almayer.

2: You powergamed the moment you went planetside to capture monkeys to increase your hive so you can go back up and try to finish the marines holding off. This is literally powergaming to achieve maximum chances of "winning" the round.

3: it's a rule break the moment you start using it to get an edge in the battle EVERY time the odds aren't in your favor.

So yeah, you broke those rules. If you had done that one time only, sure, I would be ok. but you continuously do it, to the point even Feweh is filled with it. I am reporting that because this was a BS/shit move from your part.

I only didn't sounded the SD because of YOU going back planetside and holding the game for over 15 minutes after it was supposed to have ended.
1. Come on I've told you that my character made decisions on the information she Has witnessed. So that's not metagaming. And the fact that SD was about to blow up had nothing to do with my character's decision. For example. Let's take an Lz 1 FOB. Imagine it's heavily fortified. Aliens kept dying, trying to breach it. In that situation as a Queen I would have ordered the same, to retreat and get stronger. So same happened with SD room. I will not make any further attemp to defend myself from your accusations of breaking the rule 9. I've told what there is to be told. The staff member will decide.

2. What you consider power gaming is actually a common sense. Have you actually played strategy games before? When you can't beat something you need to adapt and overcome. You don't atack a fortified position because nothing good will come out of it. And we've been doing that until we had no strength to carry on. What other IC alternatives my character had? Wait on the ship for to start hunting us? I doubt that you would have left your fortified position to start hunting us. So the only alretrantive we had is to get more siters, preferably boilers.

3. Once again it's just called Apapt and Overcome. Adapting and Overcoming is not against the rules.

PS. It's not as easy to make explanations as it is to throw accusations. That's why my posts are longer
Last edited by misterjoper on 13 Nov 2017, 13:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Feweh » 13 Nov 2017, 13:16

BladeBr wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 12:55
to not make this lengthy:

2: You powergamed the moment you went planetside to capture monkeys to increase your hive so you can go back up and try to finish the marines holding off. This is literally powergaming to achieve maximum chances of "winning" the round.

3: it's a rule break the moment you start using it to get an edge in the battle EVERY time the odds aren't in your favor.

I only didn't sounded the SD because of YOU going back planetside and holding the game for over 15 minutes after it was supposed to have ended.

Neither of these are rule breaks at all.

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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Rataca100 » 13 Nov 2017, 13:28

Its pretty cheesy. There where two good hosts you could have taken on the ship. And yes i can attest to the cheese of running off down to the planet just as the SD is ready to explode.

Either well timed or pre planned to avoid doom from a strange assumed beeping.

In fairness, SD was activated before the drop ship hit and most xeno's went to SD, either to meta or just because most of the marines went there. Edit: To make it clear, the drop ship WAS hijacked with the alert when Red alert and SD was done.
Last edited by Rataca100 on 13 Nov 2017, 13:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by BladeBr » 13 Nov 2017, 13:32

Feweh wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 13:16
Neither of these are rule breaks at all.
so any alien queen is allowed to just bail the fight, hop on DS2, bring more xenos and then crash on almayer at second time? I would like this clarified from the heads if possible.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Feweh » 13 Nov 2017, 13:35

BladeBr wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 13:32
so any alien queen is allowed to just bail the fight, hop on DS2, bring more xenos and then crash on almayer at second time? I would like this clarified from the heads if possible.
Nowhere in the rules or game-play mechanics are you not allowed to go back down to get more xenos and come back up.

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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by BladeBr » 13 Nov 2017, 13:41

Feweh wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 13:35
Nowhere in the rules or game-play mechanics are you not allowed to go back down to get more xenos and come back up.
even if said person go back to wait till the xenos he gathered(normally larvas) reach mature+ tier, needing admin intervention to force it up?

sorry feweh, but this seems way too cheesy to digest.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Feweh » 13 Nov 2017, 13:44

BladeBr wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 13:41
even if said person go back to wait till the xenos he gathered(normally larvas) reach mature+ tier, needing admin intervention to force it up?

sorry feweh, but this seems way too cheesy to digest.
This happens all the time, queens go back down to pick up and gather left behind xenos constantly.
Theres nothing cheesy about it, it's logical behavior and part of the gameplay.

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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by BladeBr » 13 Nov 2017, 13:51

Feweh wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 13:44
This happens all the time, queens go back down to pick up and gather left behind xenos constantly.
Theres nothing cheesy about it, it's logical behavior and part of the gameplay.
So I assume nothing will be done about it, right?
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Feweh » 13 Nov 2017, 14:00

BladeBr wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 13:51
So I assume nothing will be done about it, right?
Theres a difference between going back planetside to help other players get up and regroup.

and abandoning the attack on the ship and ruining the round for everyone just because the self-destruct is activated

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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by BladeBr » 13 Nov 2017, 14:01

Feweh wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 14:00
Theres a difference between going back planetside to help other players get up and regroup.

and abandoning the attack on the ship and ruining the round for everyone just because the self-destruct is activated
well then, I will just let you rule out this then. I think I am bugging you out too much here.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Emeraldblood » 13 Nov 2017, 15:34

for what this adds to the case, I pulled the bioscans in relation to the times the dropship was taken.

Going up:
[07:13:54]ADMIN: A bioscan/Queen Mother message has completed. Humans: 2 on the planet and 17 on the ship. Xenos: 10 on the planet and 0 on the ship.
[07:14:02]ADMIN: The Elite Queen (Misterjopper) launched a shuttle from the 'Alamo' flight controls

Going down:
[07:35:36]ADMIN: The Elite Queen (Misterjopper) launched a shuttle from the 'Normandy' flight controls
[07:43:59]ADMIN: A bioscan/Queen Mother message has completed. Humans: 0 on the planet and 8 on the ship. Xenos: 12 on the planet and 3 on the ship.

And heading back up:
[07:49:12]ADMIN: The Elite Queen (Misterjopper) launched a shuttle from the 'Normandy' flight controls

I'm posting this because it at least shows that Jopper didn't know exactly how many Marines were left and/or could have been in the SD room in total. While I would say it's probably better to have ended the round rather than head back down, from an RP side it's a move that could be justified. I'd suggest you try to think of the other players when the round ends, but no official rules were really broken, as Feweh pointed out.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Katsukai » 14 Nov 2017, 06:56

I was playing crusher during this round and while we we're on transit, humans already started evac and once we already reached to the Almayer all the humans have moved and have already prepared barricades at the SD with 3 sentries installed, our numbers weren't high and I kept telling the queen that we needed a boiler to successfully win the push. The queen decided not to wait for the sentinel to evolve into a boiler and decided we should leave the ship. My opinion both sides played unsportsman like and really acted with metaknowledge, like how do aliens know SD will blow up the ship or how the marines knew the dropship would crash into almayer and prepared barricades to SD before even the xenos reached to the almayer. The round left a rather bitter taste and I would wish both sides would act more realistically than just play by trying to win the game, it ruins the experience for some people when people act out of character and meta, just for the sake of winning.

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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by MrJJJ » 14 Nov 2017, 07:06

Katsukai wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 06:56
I was playing crusher during this round and while we we're on transit, humans already started evac and once we already reached to the Almayer all the humans have moved and have already prepared barricades at the SD with 3 sentries installed, our numbers weren't high and I kept telling the queen that we needed a boiler to successfully win the push. The queen decided not to wait for the sentinel to evolve into a boiler and decided we should leave the ship. My opinion both sides played unsportsman like and really acted with metaknowledge, like how do aliens know SD will blow up the ship or how the marines knew the dropship would crash into almayer and prepared barricades to SD before even the xenos reached to the almayer. The round left a rather bitter taste and I would wish both sides would act more realistically than just play by trying to win the game, it ruins the experience for some people when people act out of character and meta, just for the sake of winning.
Uhm...we knew you guys were crashing, then went to SD and started setting up defenses, by the time you crashed, we just had one sentry and like, 6 barricades, and you came to SD very quickly, we were very lucky to have setup the last 2 sentries and defenses and the fact we still had 2 specs alive, me and Jeser to fight back with, if you guys even had one boiler it would be instant GG with how unprepared were we.

I was the B18 that round too, we even wanted to go to CIC first and defend it, but XO managed to activate SD and after some thinking, we decided to guard it there, since CIC had no point anymore.

How is this in any way metaknoweldge?

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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by BladeBr » 14 Nov 2017, 07:07

Emeraldblood wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 15:34
for what this adds to the case, I pulled the bioscans in relation to the times the dropship was taken.

Going up:
[07:13:54]ADMIN: A bioscan/Queen Mother message has completed. Humans: 2 on the planet and 17 on the ship. Xenos: 10 on the planet and 0 on the ship.
[07:14:02]ADMIN: The Elite Queen (Misterjopper) launched a shuttle from the 'Alamo' flight controls

Going down:
[07:35:36]ADMIN: The Elite Queen (Misterjopper) launched a shuttle from the 'Normandy' flight controls
[07:43:59]ADMIN: A bioscan/Queen Mother message has completed. Humans: 0 on the planet and 8 on the ship. Xenos: 12 on the planet and 3 on the ship.

And heading back up:
[07:49:12]ADMIN: The Elite Queen (Misterjopper) launched a shuttle from the 'Normandy' flight controls

I'm posting this because it at least shows that Jopper didn't know exactly how many Marines were left and/or could have been in the SD room in total. While I would say it's probably better to have ended the round rather than head back down, from an RP side it's a move that could be justified. I'd suggest you try to think of the other players when the round ends, but no official rules were really broken, as Feweh pointed out.
I would just like to interject that Joper knew there were marines on SD, and they were trying to break through. He screeched at least 2-3 times, so he knew SD was on, alongside the whole hive.

Now, what's cheesy, is the moment the last rod is about to go up, the aliens stop attacking and go planetside... Delaying the round.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Katsukai » 14 Nov 2017, 07:11

MrJJJ wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 07:06
Uhm...we knew you guys were crashing, then went to SD and started setting up defenses, by the time you crashed, we just had one sentry and like, 6 barricades, and you came to SD very quickly, we were very lucky to have setup the last 2 sentries and defenses and the fact we still had 2 specs alive, me and Jeser to fight back with, if you guys even had one boiler it would be instant GG with how unprepared were we.

I was the B18 that round too, we even wanted to go to CIC first and defend it, but XO managed to activate SD and after some thinking, we decided to guard it there, since CIC had no point anymore.

How is this in any way metaknoweldge?
So you're telling me that you all prepared the hallway barricades on both sides of SD and the center of SD, when dropship collusion imminent came up? I'm impressed. It would been still a hard push with a narrow entrance and 3 sentries.

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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by BladeBr » 14 Nov 2017, 07:20

Katsukai wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 07:11
So you're telling me that you all prepared the hallway barricades on both sides of SD and the center of SD, when dropship collusion imminent came up? I'm impressed. It would been still a hard push with a narrow entrance and 3 sentries.
We had a few more enginners and marines before they died and only me, the RO and CT and two specs were left alive.

Also, we only had one sentry up and building the second when you guys started ramming. The third took even more tume since I didn't knew how to build a sentry and had one spec do it for myself.

You guts legit could have destroyed us there.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by solidfury7 » 14 Nov 2017, 07:23

I think while it is dodgy behaviour to head back to the planet, it doesn't outright break any rules however it is extremely dissapointing to see the round extended needlessly for what is an obvious attempt to power game a win.

We removed endgame winning and losing text for situations like this.

I do think this situation also highlights the ridiculous nature of the dropship hijacking and the fact it is an aged concept better reserved along side other obsolete concepts such as cloning.
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Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Katsukai » 14 Nov 2017, 07:25

BladeBr wrote:
14 Nov 2017, 07:20
We had a few more enginners and marines before they died and only me, the RO and CT and two specs were left alive.

Also, we only had one sentry up and building the second when you guys started ramming. The third took even more tume since I didn't knew how to build a sentry and had one spec do it for myself.

You guts legit could have destroyed us there.
Probably had the wrong impression, since I didn't rush first to SD. Once I was there, 3 sentries were setup. Apologies.

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Byond: misterjopper
Steam: misterjoper

Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by misterjoper » 14 Nov 2017, 07:39

In order for the sentinel to be able to evolve to boiler, he needed both tier 2 and tier 3 slots avaliable. And I doubt there were any, I had not checked though. B18 +3 senties could kill any alien except for a crusher and may be a ravager. Without boiler Support, it would be a suicide to continue atacking.

BladeBr,What's your exact issue with me?
The fact that we decided not to play by your "terms", and retreated so we could come back stronger? That's adapting and overcoming.

Or was it the fact that the round was getting delayed? It's it stupid to accuse aliens of delaying the round when IT"S the marines that have the acess to the button that literaly can end the round. The only way aliens could have ended the round is by dying and it's stupid to expect enemy team to die willingly. WE could NOT have won there. We have tried and failed. Why did not you press the SD button when we left? You clearly knew there was no way you could reclaim the Almayer. I doubt that any of you came out of the barricades even when most of left.

P.S. Acussing marines of meta is stupid and off-topic, so I won't do that. And I ask other to stop that as well.
Now I am truly Free from this Endless loop of killing eachother.
I had my fun for a half of year. I am satisfied.
Jobbaned from alien since 16.11.2017. My last tallhost Pet:"Charlotte 'Fortune' View".
This has gone down in history viewtopic.php?f=133&t=14927
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URRGiqdb_KM

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Steelpoint
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Byond: Steelpoint

Re: Player Report on misterjoper

Post by Steelpoint » 14 Nov 2017, 07:41

I was observing this round.

The round ended up being extended by a very significant period of time, with a large majority of the server being ghosted or observing. To the xenomorphs it was clear they could not stop the Self Destruct in time, from a meta sense the general feeling was that the Aliens were intentionally delaying the round even though no matter how long they waited the outcome would be the same, that the ship would self destruct.

Perhaps a better mechanic for the xenos to attack the Almayer would help but that's speculation
This is war, survival is your responsibility.

Alan Bentway: Marine
Kwei Ikthya-de: Predator

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