Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

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Stumpy Buckford
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Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Stumpy Buckford » 08 Mar 2018, 13:32

Welcome Xenos! Today, I plan on creating a detailed guide for the construction of, "secure," nests. The fundamental purpose of secure nests is to separate captured marines, so that they cannot communicate easily, or break each other out, while also keeping them all close enough together that the minimum number of Xenos are occupied babysitting. For the entirety of this guide, I will refer to the East/West plane as, "X," and the North/South Plane as, "Y." All that means is if I say, "Move 3 cells X," I am telling you to move 3 cells to the East or West, and, "cell," will refer to each block of space moved with 1 press of your directional keys. So, without further ado, let's jump right in!

Step 1: Identify where you want to build secure nests, how many secure nests, and specifically, where you want the actual nests to be. The best secure nests are created with a checkerboard pattern, or nest|door|nest|door and so on. Once you have figured out the size of the nest you want, try to pick at least one boundary that is against a metal(Human) wall. Pick a cell for the first nest in your mind(Corners are best) and move 1 cell X by 1 cell Y from the cell you picked. Create a wall in this spot. From the first wall, move 2 cells X by 2 cells Y, and create another wall. From your second wall, you want to move 2 cells back the way you came, and then 2 cells away from your first wall, putting you 4 cells away from your original wall, and you can create your third wall. Continue the same movements to create walls 2 and 3, until you have filled the space you desire. You should be left with a pattern that looks similar to this, although it does not have to be the same size, my original wall has the yellow circle around it:
Image
For another view, I created GridLines on this picture so you can see how many spaces there are between walls. The stars are every place that a door will be made in the next step.
Image
Once your walls are similarly positioned, proceed to Step 2.

Step 2: Go to your original wall, and build 4 doors adjacent to your original wall, 1 to the North, South, East, and West. You will have a design around your original wall that looks like this:
Image

Step 3: DESTROY the original wall, which is surrounded by 4 doors. Once the wall is destroyed, replace it with a nest. Congratulations, you have created your first secure nest! It should look like this:
Image

Step 4: Repeat steps 2 and 3 for every wall you made. This should give you multiple, individual secure nests. Referring back to this picture, you can see where all of my doors went.
Image

IMPORTANT if you realize at this step that you have any doors you cannot build, because they are not adjacent to a wall, just build a wall 1 cell away, build the door where you need it, then destroy the wall.

Step 5: Once you have built doors around every wall, and then destroyed the walls, fill in every space with a nest. You will now see the checkerboard pattern come to life. In this picture, you can actually see our sentinel already guarding 2 captured survivors in the secure nests:
Image

Something important to remember, this will not be fast the first time you follow this guide. It is best to take your time and practice making secure nests like this at the beginning of the round, before the marines deploy, and before people start screaming for them. Eventually these secure nests should be crafted along the way each time you push back marines, so that those who capture are not stuck dragging their prey forever, and all captured marines will be nested in one location, requiring minimal babysitters(BABYSITTERS ARE STILL NEEDED). Each time you make a new secure nest, be sure to let your hive know where it is, and if there are still captured marines in the previous nest, HELP MOVE THEM to the next nest forward.

I wish you all the best of luck, and I hope you enjoy this guide!
Last edited by Stumpy Buckford on 08 Mar 2018, 13:44, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by AverageSpitter » 08 Mar 2018, 13:35

Now, that's what i call fucking secure nests, It's kind of tiresome seeing people nesting hosts where you put the furry ones
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by MrDodo » 08 Mar 2018, 14:16

nice, i was queen this round, kek

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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Weaselburg » 08 Mar 2018, 14:22

Please do not make 1-bed cells. It is very hard to guard, make like a 6 or a 3 pack of nests instead. Much easier to guard, and it lets Tallhosts talk so they are not bored.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Sulaboy » 08 Mar 2018, 15:09

Weaselburg wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 14:22
Please do not make 1-bed cells. It is very hard to guard, make like a 6 or a 3 pack of nests instead. Much easier to guard, and it lets Tallhosts talk so they are not bored.
THIS IS CORRECT THE MARINES WILL ALL KILL THEMSELVES WHEN THEY BREAK FREE. BUILD A SMALL NESTING ROOM AND HAVE SENTINELS GUARD IT LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Weaselburg » 09 Mar 2018, 12:53

Sulaboy wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 15:09
THIS IS CORRECT THE MARINES WILL ALL KILL THEMSELVES WHEN THEY BREAK FREE. BUILD A SMALL NESTING ROOM AND HAVE SENTINELS GUARD IT LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO.
Yeah, depending how deep in they are, you have to open all the doors, walk over nests of others who possibly have escaped, and by that point they have shot/grenaded themselves and/or others. Also, it is REALLY boring as a marine to sit their talking on the radio having everyone ignore you. IT gives them a chance to talk, and there is a very rare chance of them escaping, a lower one then the "Secure" 1 Bed per cell nests.
Hivemind, Elite Runner (320) (follow) hisses, 'SORRY I STEPPED ON THE BUTTON MA.
Kaptin Morgan: we must unite to collect the shattered pieces of the tribes code that are spread among the 16 feweh alts
Hivemind, Mature Crusher (21) hisses, 'I CAN MEME AGAIN'
You know, it really surprised me when IKEA bought Disney.- The biggest surprise was KFC buying IBM, to be honest
Philby0 wrote: They're so white they can colonise anything at will
PFC Rex Lombardi shouts, "Boys if you jump out of the dropship you are guarenteed a pass into the paratroopers regiment!"
OOC: Jakkkk: weaselburg got t o u c h e d
OOC: Driecg36: a sentient demon had taken residence in shutte code
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Weaselburg » 09 Mar 2018, 12:55

And a 8- pack can work, a 3 by 3 cell with a spot in the middle for a sentinal. Its rare that any of the rooms will be full anyways, and drones can always come help contain a co-ordnated outbreak, which would just be a couple guys with knives and fists and maybe 1 or two pistols.
Hivemind, Elite Runner (320) (follow) hisses, 'SORRY I STEPPED ON THE BUTTON MA.
Kaptin Morgan: we must unite to collect the shattered pieces of the tribes code that are spread among the 16 feweh alts
Hivemind, Mature Crusher (21) hisses, 'I CAN MEME AGAIN'
You know, it really surprised me when IKEA bought Disney.- The biggest surprise was KFC buying IBM, to be honest
Philby0 wrote: They're so white they can colonise anything at will
PFC Rex Lombardi shouts, "Boys if you jump out of the dropship you are guarenteed a pass into the paratroopers regiment!"
OOC: Jakkkk: weaselburg got t o u c h e d
OOC: Driecg36: a sentient demon had taken residence in shutte code
OOC: Daswurmtmich: GIBING WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Sulaboy » 09 Mar 2018, 14:07

Weaselburg wrote:
09 Mar 2018, 12:53
Yeah, depending how deep in they are, you have to open all the doors, walk over nests of others who possibly have escaped, and by that point they have shot/grenaded themselves and/or others. Also, it is REALLY boring as a marine to sit their talking on the radio having everyone ignore you. IT gives them a chance to talk, and there is a very rare chance of them escaping, a lower one then the "Secure" 1 Bed per cell nests.
If you time it right as a marine you can empty your sidearm into your chest before a Xeno can even open a door, it makes sentinel's lived harder. The easiest way to secure a hive is to have more sentinels guarding hosts. Keeping them nested in a chamber is also more fun for the sentinels, because they might actually get to tango with the hosts. Whenever I play sentinel I slash down those doors if I can, because they block my neuro spit, and give the host time to get up from nest delay. As a nested marine I can kill myself before a Xeno can open the door, or if I still have my shotgun on my back I can blast the Xeno unlucky enough to open my cell.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Weaselburg » 09 Mar 2018, 15:36

Sulaboy wrote:
09 Mar 2018, 14:07
If you time it right as a marine you can empty your sidearm into your chest before a Xeno can even open a door, it makes sentinel's lived harder. The easiest way to secure a hive is to have more sentinels guarding hosts. Keeping them nested in a chamber is also more fun for the sentinels, because they might actually get to tango with the hosts. Whenever I play sentinel I slash down those doors if I can, because they block my neuro spit, and give the host time to get up from nest delay. As a nested marine I can kill myself before a Xeno can open the door, or if I still have my shotgun on my back I can blast the Xeno unlucky enough to open my cell.
Thats what I was trying to say, thanks for clearing it up.
Hivemind, Elite Runner (320) (follow) hisses, 'SORRY I STEPPED ON THE BUTTON MA.
Kaptin Morgan: we must unite to collect the shattered pieces of the tribes code that are spread among the 16 feweh alts
Hivemind, Mature Crusher (21) hisses, 'I CAN MEME AGAIN'
You know, it really surprised me when IKEA bought Disney.- The biggest surprise was KFC buying IBM, to be honest
Philby0 wrote: They're so white they can colonise anything at will
PFC Rex Lombardi shouts, "Boys if you jump out of the dropship you are guarenteed a pass into the paratroopers regiment!"
OOC: Jakkkk: weaselburg got t o u c h e d
OOC: Driecg36: a sentient demon had taken residence in shutte code
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Nick123q23 » 09 Mar 2018, 17:18

For the love of god do NOT build checkerboard nests. This is bad advice and hurts marines, sentinels, and players.
What you SHOULD do is build small chambers composed of about 3 or 6 nests opposite of eachother, with the only doors being the entrances and exits to that specific chamber. Fill the interior of your nesting chamber completely with sticky resin, and you may want to add some walls to disorientate hosts or give sentinels cover from breakouts.

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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by DefinitelyAlone0309 » 11 Mar 2018, 06:03

I'm not a fan of checkerboard nest, because sentinels and spitters get a habit of standing in a door to multitask hosts, and if they make a mistake, rines can just free each other as soon as the delay runs out. I'm more of a grid nest fan.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Reuben Owen » 11 Mar 2018, 17:10

Image

Here's a decent hive that I built when I was the only Drone at roundstart.

Nests for the monkeys should be clumped together, but away from Secure nests to prevent potential damage to SSD Larvas. Is okay to have Queen near small hosts.

You want to make secure nests BEFORE they become necessary. That way Runner (420) doesn't put an infected tall host in one of your monkey nests, who breaks free and hurts them. And not just 1 or 2 secure nests, but if you can bother at least 5.

Notice how nothing built impedes the progress of someone going through the hive, and while going through the hive you can easily tell where secure nests are even if you didn't see them being built, and there are many of them.

Secure nests (and eggs, hopefully) should be at the entrance of the hive for more easy viewability. Not Queen/Larvas.
Putting an egg down can be a kind of "marker" to the start of a hive entrance.

You want to spread out eggs, not clump them together. That way other sisters have more of a chance of seeing them when bringing hosts.

Hive also has a cool escape tunnel for Queen.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Sulaboy » 11 Mar 2018, 19:24

Reuben Owen wrote:
11 Mar 2018, 17:10
Image

Here's a decent hive that I built when I was the only Drone at roundstart.

Nests for the monkeys should be clumped together, but away from Secure nests to prevent potential damage to SSD Larvas. Is okay to have Queen near small hosts.

You want to make secure nests BEFORE they become necessary. That way Runner (420) doesn't put an infected tall host in one of your monkey nests, who breaks free and hurts them. And not just 1 or 2 secure nests, but if you can bother at least 5.

Notice how nothing built impedes the progress of someone going through the hive, and while going through the hive you can easily tell where secure nests are even if you didn't see them being built, and there are many of them.

Secure nests (and eggs, hopefully) should be at the entrance of the hive for more easy viewability. Not Queen/Larvas.
Putting an egg down can be a kind of "marker" to the start of a hive entrance.

You want to spread out eggs, not clump them together. That way other sisters have more of a chance of seeing them when bringing hosts.

Hive also has a cool escape tunnel for Queen.
What if the marines just kill themselves in the secure nest.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Reuben Owen » 11 Mar 2018, 20:12

Sulaboy wrote:
11 Mar 2018, 19:24
What if the marines just kill themselves in the secure nest.
In a perfect world, we have something called Sentinels which look after hosts. The nests are all within distance of 1 Xenos sight, so they can view + guard them all because they are all only 1 door away, allowing quick movement to each.

However if no one is watching and they break free/kill themselves, at least they won't pose a danger to larva or queen.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Sulaboy » 11 Mar 2018, 21:00

Reuben Owen wrote:
11 Mar 2018, 20:12
In a perfect world, we have something called Sentinels which look after hosts. The nests are all within distance of 1 Xenos sight, so they can view + guard them all because they are all only 1 door away, allowing quick movement to each.

However if no one is watching and they break free/kill themselves, at least they won't pose a danger to larva or queen.
As a marine I can kill myself before a sentinel can open a door. What is the door supposed to accomplish anyways? Marines can prime grenades or just shoot themselves with their sidearm. The only use of these secure cells would be to hide pain crit or ssd marines. I'm only saying this because not only are these cells inefficient, but they are also boring for both sides. Sentinels and marines can actually interact if you group them up, but aliens seem to have the idea that building this is a good hive design, sure it limits marine mobility, but all these doors limit Xeno mobility. As a marine I have been in so many situations where I am captured and still manage to get myself killed. There have been times where Xenos have forgotten about me so I killed resting Xenos when I broke out, and even after that I was killed by some Xeno that saw me out of a nest. When ever I play Xeno it's usually sentinel, and I hate when I see these. I have my neuro spit to knock down marines, but instead I have to walk up open a door, and then tackle the marine or then I get to spit. This really becomes a problem when multiple marines are present. If the Xenos had a proper nesting room which they protected and staffed with sentinel's and drones the hive would be so neat and tidy.

I should probably stop ranting about this design so sorry for this.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Reuben Owen » 11 Mar 2018, 21:45

Sulaboy wrote:
11 Mar 2018, 21:00
words
Yeah, I know marines are suicide jockeys when it comes to breaking out of nests.
But having them not be individually trapped can end up in them coordinating perfectly in a mass breakout. Which leaves the lone sentinel watching them dead as they rapidly free each other. Xenos do often forget about hosts, good or bad hive design, and consequently kill themselves because of it.

I found that if the Sentinel is paying attention, they can get to any host before they suicide. Maybe not before they get the 1 knife slash or pistol shot on themselves, but they cannot perform the real gun to mouth suicide.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Sulaboy » 12 Mar 2018, 00:41

Reuben Owen wrote:
11 Mar 2018, 21:45
-snip
In that thread about predator suicides I brought up the question of marines having to RP suicide. A moderator told me it is valid in any case that you have been captured. I'm saying that while Xenos fear marines coordinating to take down that one sentinel. What really ought to happen is three sentinels and a drone working a large nesting chamber. When I play a combat caste, I always have to go looking for nests and eggs when I capture a host. If all the runners and hunters knew where they should drop off hosts it would be much better for the Xenos. So it is a real shame that only one sentinel decides that guarding hosts is what they want to do when the rest are running around pretending to be spitters. I can't change that but the queen can. Xenos have to listen to the queen, and I'm sure no sentinel would turn down the opportunity to guard a nesting chamber full of hosts.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Reuben Owen » 12 Mar 2018, 21:04

Sulaboy wrote:
12 Mar 2018, 00:41
words
Image
it works mate

these 'nests' were guarded by only 1 sentinel + 1 runner
and at one point ALL those nests were full, crazy amts
count the chest bursters

then at another point the marines managed to reach these infected just as they started to mass breakout with nades and junk
about half of the infected at that time were lost, but more came later

but because the nests were literally SO spread out marines couldn't take advantage as well as they could've if the nests were bunched closer, so less infected died and marines didn't have a "point" to focus on to break free hosts
like I didn't think this kinda design would be a good hive til this round but I am sold lol

note the nests didn't start out like this, it was mostly just the south part and some center nests but it took damage + got repaired differently
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Sulaboy » 13 Mar 2018, 03:20

Reuben Owen wrote:
12 Mar 2018, 21:04
-snip
That's nice and all but literally last round I played I killed myself in one of these nests. The aliens just can't respond fast enough. Also I observed that round and a marine almost had time to plant an OB.
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Reuben Owen » 13 Mar 2018, 13:28

Sulaboy wrote:
13 Mar 2018, 03:20
That's nice and all but literally last round I played I killed myself in one of these nests. The aliens just can't respond fast enough. Also I observed that round and a marine almost had time to plant an OB.
but they didn't plant an OB successfully in my above picture, you could see that they tried to in 2 different spots but were unable to
unlike pic
Image
hivelord was specifically building nests together saying it was good and we were all like "ok fine but can you do secure nests please" but they didn't and I tried to hyper guard them (about 7 marines) along with the hivelord + 3 sentinels... who all ended up dying in the consequent chaos of their breakout
the marines got up as a group, started firing at everything nearby, uncontrollable by 3 sentinels + me (hunter) + hivelord and managed to get off an OB too
from this round there were a few problems with grouping them up
-that the marines can see you otherwise being occupied (how close/far you are, if trying to subdue another host) as an attempt to escape
-that it takes time now to renest a single host when they escape, you cant move during that time
-that in this kinda of nesting, if you are standing on a host while dealing with another, they will get up from under you and try to release others
-you are an immediate visible target
-and lastly, sometimes they can immediately rebreak out of a nest after you nest them which lets them release others, disrupt shit, etc


next time you successfully killing yourself, present of screenshot immediately after of the constructed hive so we can see what it looked like + if you were even being watched
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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Simo94 » 13 Mar 2018, 14:00

please do build checkerboard nests, they are your best option, nest chambers are a horrid idea, if a marine breaks out in a secure nest they can only kill themselves at most or even run if unguarded but they wont get far cuz they are deep behind enemy lines, but in a nest chambers marines can speak with eachother and coordinate mass breakouts and suicides, and 1 free marine can free another one which also frees another one in a chain of death, im speaking out of experience as xeno and marine, one time xenos had us in a nest chamber we even managed to escape the whole hive together and make it back to the FOB, while everytime im in a secure nest I can only kill myself at most.
also it takes waay less xenos to guard checker nests than it takes to guard chambers, and sometimes not even 3 sentinels can secure a nest chamber if the marines who broke out have heavy weapons.
Image

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Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by awan » 15 Mar 2018, 08:37

You can do it as long as you do not make it (too) wide.
As long as it is only 1 or 2 rows of nests wide or you leave a corridor between them xeno's can run between them very fast.

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Allafif
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Joined: 21 Jan 2018, 01:19
Byond: Allafif

Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Allafif » 15 Mar 2018, 14:39

A small row of cells works better to take advantage of your faster speed on weeds and your neurospit, compared to a giant checkerboard where xenos have to walk through three doors to get to anyone, making them just as slow but without guns.

I've been seeing more small open rooms with an active Sentinel lately, and they work fine too. Six is a bit much, but why not let two or three chat as long as the nests are two or three tiles apart? It seems healthier to the community to let marines communicate and get a low chance of escape rather than sit there in paincrit.
I usually play as Henri Leroux, but I was once known as Elite Boiler (420).

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Stumpy Buckford
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Joined: 22 Jan 2018, 09:11
Byond: Dragon Warrior2662

Re: Hivebuilding - The Guide to Secure Nests

Post by Stumpy Buckford » 23 Mar 2018, 07:56

I think some people are misunderstanding, but this is simply a GUIDE to building secured nests in a checkerboard pattern. Different Xeno players have different preferences for nesting hosts, but based on my experiences playing drone and spitter, checkerboards seem to be the most popular. This is not a claim that checkerboard nests are the best, and it was not my intention for this to be a discussion about what type of nest is best. This is simply a guide to building a checkerboard nest with all doors, because it pains my soul every time I am in a checkerboard nest and it is made with a bunch of walls, restricting my movement.
My expertise is in burping giant blobs of acid at the enemy.
My true love is watching the hopes and dreams of the USCM crumble to dust.

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